The M14, Not Much for Fighting

[High Exposure 5,662]

I don't know why exactly but these articles make me happy as they slay many sacred cows...

http://looserounds.com/2015/01/30/the-m14-not-much-for-fighting-a-case-against-the-m14-legend/

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/677383.pdf

[RUTGERS95 890]

you blaspheme!   lol

[Old School 611]

I never trained with one and my only experience was with the M1A as a civilian.

 

Very good article (read the first one)

 

Now I don't feel like a dufus since, the one I had experience with I couldn't get to shoot.

[magnawing 5]

When I was serving as a door gunner, I chose an M14 as my backup over the M16. It had nothing to do with accuracy, durability or weight. My decision was made by ammo....my main weapon was an M60 so that meant I had 5000 rounds that would fire in either weapon instead of a backup with just 60 rounds.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[Old School 611]

When I was serving as a door gunner, I chose an M14 as my backup over the M16. It had nothing to do with accuracy, durability or weight. My decision was made by ammo....my main weapon was an M60 so that meant I had 5000 rounds that would fire in either weapon instead of a backup with just 60 rounds.

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

 

Makes perfect sense.

[jrfly3006 42]

I agree the M14 is not suited for everday infantry type duties...it does fill some niche roles very well...like Magnawings use...and even the DMR role

[Wojo 98]

That was a good read. My uncle was a Marine 'advisor' in Vietnam from 63 - 65. As a kid, I heard nothing but horror stories about the Mattel 16 and the M14 was held on a pedestal.

 

I qualified in Basic with a M16A2 in March of 1984. Our first rounds down range were from prone. Of course under strict instruction and heavy over watch by  the RSO's, we laid there following instructions. As I laid there, my eyes were searching for the 'Made by Mattel' stamp as I waited for my turn to load and fire. The RSO sees my roving eyes and canting of the rifle so i could look at the underside for that damn 'M' postage stamp logo Mattel used. He takes a knee next to my position and asks, "WTF are you doing?"....Me - 'Nothing'. RSO - "Don't tell me you are looking for the Mattel Stamp"...Sir, Yes, Sir. RSO - 'Dumb Ass, these are Colts. Who told you that?" It was a pretty funny exchange.

 

Then I got to carry a M16A2 to conduct 'Safety Inspections' around the Panama Canal Zone. Nothing like being surrounded by steel using FMJ. We were still using OLD 1911's that had so much slop if was a wonder they still shot. Most of us preferred carrying shotguns for boardings.

 

As a civilian, I finally broke down and bought my first NM AR-15 after getting frustrated shooting my M1 Garand in Service Rifle. The first day at the range to zero it and start load development it was windy as hell. When I went to check my targets a gust of wind grabbed my mat off the bench and flipped my new AR upside down onto the asphalt. It landed on the front sight and carry handle. I could tell because I had to wipe the little pieces of asphalt off of the front sight ears and the carry handle thru my tears of dread and endless strings of OMFG's. Ops Check it. Loaded a fresh mag and to my amazement, it held zero and was fine. IF that was my M1, everything would've been off. Tough Love lesson, but convinced me that the AR was better than I gave it credit for. Then there were matches in the rain, advanced training in foul weather, heat, dirt, etc. I never had an issue with an AR. Still not my ideal caliber, but, hits and durability count.

 

I do own a SA M1A Scout that has had some work done to it. I love that rifle. But am under no illusion that it is that Muscle Car that I 'have to have' but fully know, that it is not the vehicle I take when SHTF. On the same note....if SHTF, am I jumping on my Harley with a M1A? No. It will be my Kawasaki KLR650 with my M4'gery. Bro'mance versus practicality.

[Shane45 807]

Its great people are finally starting to catch on. Maybe some day Ill stop getting dirty looks when I reveal that many trainers out there report that they have yet to see a SA M1A complete one of their classes. With that being said I think Wojo summed it up nicely with the muscle car analogy. Even knowing what I know I find myself looking at a LRB M1A every now and then

[MedicYeti 96]

Reading these articles reminded me of my father. When he was serving in Vietnam he started with an M16- the earliest model that had problems with the environment so he "ditched that #*<£ing thing" for an M14, which he didn't like either. He ended up with a shotgun and many times an M60. He liked the M60, but his phrases about it's effectiveness are no where near PC. He came out to the range with me a few times and refused to like the AR's

[High Exposure 5,662]

 

 

 

When I was serving as a door gunner, I chose an M14 as my backup over the M16. It had nothing to do with accuracy, durability or weight. My decision was made by ammo....my main weapon was an M60 so that meant I had 5000 rounds that would fire in either weapon instead of a backup with just 60 rounds. This signature is AWESOME!!!

Makes perfect sense.

Not to me.

 

First, Magna thanks for your service. My Dad and all my Uncles served over there, one of whom was a Marine door gunner.

 

Now, serious question.

 

So both weapons used similar ammo, but used different feeding methods. Was the plan to de-link 5000 rounds and stuff them into 20 round mags for the M14 or download 3 mags and shoot 60 rounds 1 at a time through the pig? (Is that even possible? I know next to nothing about the M60 except it doesn't take mags).

 

While I see the theory, I don't see it being useful in practice. Not saying an M16 would have been a better choice, but on its face it seems impractical.

[magnawing 5]

Same ammo, some in magazines, most linked for the MG.

 

The M14 was only a backup in the event that the M60 s#!t the bed. I flew with 4 loaded mags and my Radar operator was within reach of the tail end of my linked ammo. If it came down to it (it never did) he would start shucking shells out of the belt and reloading mags. Not the best option but better than the 60 rounds I would have had with the M16.

[lunker 274]

Its great people are finally starting to catch on. Maybe some day Ill stop getting dirty looks when I reveal that many trainers out there report that they have yet to see a SA M1A complete one of their classes. With that being said I think Wojo summed it up nicely with the muscle car analogy. Even knowing what I know I find myself looking at a LRB M1A every now and then

 

Great read. Shane, I remember once asking you about a precision 308 rifle and you (very diplomatically I should add) steering me away from the M14 clones, saying how much work and expense was required to accurize them. As usual, good advice. 

[High Exposure 5,662]

Roger! Thanks. That makes more sense.

[Wojo 98]

80 rounds of 308 trumps 80 rounds of 556. And you aren't humping it  thru brush.

[High Exposure 5,662]

I agree the M14 is not suited for everday infantry type duties...it does fill some niche roles very well...like Magnawings use...and even the DMR role

The M14 may fill the niche role of a DMR rifle but, by all accounts, it doesn't do it well. The M14 was not chosen to be the standard DMR for the Army because it performs that task well. The Army recognized the need for that capability and the necessity to get it out in the field fast. They simply had a metric butt-load of them already in stores and there is nothing else in the inventory to choose from.

 

Units that were smart, had the authority to purchase non standard weapons, and planned ahead, got their hands on some COTS solutions - mostly .308 ARs - and had much greater success with them.