CJRPC scandal?

[bry@n 195]

I've met George and don't know the man other than a few times at meetings. I do however know the other party you mentioned and the crowd of folks supporting George.

 

I stood up at the meeting and called them hypocrits because how could they stand for the 2A if they were willing to oppress the 1A.

 

I have nothing to gain nor lose here but I tjink George has valid points. I'd like to see how this plays out for sure. I wish him well. Nothing worse than somebody abiding their power.

 

On another note, I highly doubt George wouldn't go to that meeting. Plenty of people go to meetings just to see how the board handles this. I don't for a second believe he wouldn't have gone because he stood tall every time I saw the guy.

[lunker 274]

Wow, within five minutes of my last post I have to break my promise again.

 

I am so tired of hearing posts like this one. Look at the FACTS, George NEVER accused the board of doing anything wrong prior to the membership meetings. The only thing George did was informally, then formally requested the monthly financial documents. The very first board meeting which I along with many others attended with George, Byron was the one that stood up and screamed across the table that he wouldn’t tolerate being called a thief! Nobody in that room ever accused him or anyone else of that. All George wanted was the financials he was entitled to. The membership meeting where the Chairman distributed all of Georges personal information then challenged him to provide proof that the board was doing something wrong was setup by them. All they wanted was him up in front of the membership as a setup, EXACTLY like what happened to the last person that requested documentation. At that meeting George had no documentation because the board REFUSED to give him any. People need to get this straight. Your never going to get George to engage in any debate or planned inquisition. He does his homework, compiles the facts and documents whatever he feels is his concerns, then addresses them. And now because of the board’s illegal actions to get him out of the club, he will NEVER produce any evidence to this forum, any other forum or any place other than in court. So speculate all you want but try to keep your opinions in line with the facts. And if you don’t know the facts then wait and when they come out you will be informed.

 

 

Sgt251 - I can imagine it is difficult to hold your tongue when you feel your friend is being maligned. But you stated this fight will not be won or lost on the internet, and that is true. There is an expression you might want to consider,  "Never wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig enjoys it".  

While I don't have any insider knowledge on right/wrong done by the Board, I am strongly for eliminating cronyism and the waste/fraud that goes along with it. The money to pay for this legal fight will come out of all of our dues, but if it leads to more transparent policies, it may save us all in the long run. 

I am hopeful that the truth will prevail. 

[nuclearheli 40]

Wow, within five minutes of my last post I have to break my promise again........

 

 

Thanks but stand down my friend, this is not the time and not the place. Talk to you later.

[navyguy 0]

A few years ago we had a similar incident at the club where a member, who just for kicks we'll call JR, didn't get his own way so he decided to send an "anonymous" letter to the Pine Barrens Commission telling them the club was illegally cutting down trees etc etc. Well this was all a lie.His intent was to harm the club. Well this latest incident involving GA smells exactly the same. And isn't it a strange coincidence that JR just happens to be an inside the club informant of GA, and is feeding him a pack of lies.

When GA decided to take action against the club he also agreed to the rules governing such action. The club was required to notify GA in advance that he must appear at a BOD hearing to discuss his grievance. He was sent a registered letter which he refused to accept, and this refusal is documented in the US Postal Service Records. Now according to the above mentioned rules, refusal to appear at the BOD meeting means automatic expulsion from the club. GA terminated his own membership, the BOD "never" took a vote to expel him from the club. All this was done according CJRPC Bylaws which GA and his legal advisors insisted be followed (ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4 SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION).

If you are going slam the BOD and club, get all the facts!

 

[1563621 388]

I have had many dealings with George and consider him a stand-up guy. I think the truth will come out in court! Mods, maybe time to close this one down!

[bry@n 195]

agreed.

[lunker 274]

A few years ago we had a similar incident at the club where a member, who just for kicks we'll call JR, didn't get his own way so he decided to send an "anonymous" letter to the Pine Barrens Commission telling them the club was illegally cutting down trees etc etc. Well this was all a lie.His intent was to harm the club. Well this latest incident involving GA smells exactly the same. And isn't it a strange coincidence that JR just happens to be an inside the club informant of GA, and is feeding him a pack of lies.

When GA decided to take action against the club he also agreed to the rules governing such action. The club was required to notify GA in advance that he must appear at a BOD hearing to discuss his grievance. He was sent a registered letter which he refused to accept, and this refusal is documented in the US Postal Service Records. Now according to the above mentioned rules, refusal to appear at the BOD meeting means automatic expulsion from the club. GA terminated his own membership, the BOD "never" took a vote to expel him from the club. All this was done according CJRPC Bylaws which GA and his legal advisors insisted be followed (ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4 SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION).

If you are going slam the BOD and club, get all the facts!

 

Nice first post. Reminds me of the time a few years ago when there was a trip organized for NJGF forum members to visit CJRPC, and CJRPC Board members opened up forum accounts here to spy on them. 

[jm1827 284]

I have had many dealings with George and consider him a stand-up guy. I think the truth will come out in court! Mods, maybe time to close this one down!

I have to agree on all counts.

[Sgt251 0]

Oh I agree and don’t. You’re perception Mr. Director of what are lies and what are not will be proven wrong in the proper forum. And as far as being notified of the meeting he was not, and the board knew that. The official Postal Service web site listed the letter as still waiting to be picked up when you had your inquisition. I saw the documentation. You never had the curtesy to even try to notify him by phone or any other way that the letter was there. This will all be brought out in court with documented evidence.

 

Please, before this is closed down have the director answer this. WHY, since according to you he was discharged from the club for a failure to appear and no vote was taken, are you violating his rights as a legal gun owner, NRA member and supporter, professional and business owner, and a citizen. WHY is he not permitted as a member of the public to attend PUBLIC matches. Why are the other members not allowed to have him at the club as a guest. And, have you notified all the members that they are prohibited from letting him come as a guest and why? WHY are you violating the rights of a solid member of the club and community. A person that had the best interest of the club, never had an issue at all with safety and in fact would give safety briefings to club members at his own match. WHY a person that protected the assets of the club and has always spoken highly of the club to prospective members. WHY ARE YOU VIOLATING HIS RIGHTS. You have no answer to that and since you are quoting the by-laws show the posters here where the by-laws state that he is prohibited from the club as a guest or member of the public. SHOW US. While you’re at it answer me this. WHY are all the individuals that support him and are his friends under constant surveillance by board members and officers every time they meet at the club? Don’t even attempt to deny it, there are so many witnesses.

 

He is officially banned from the club as a member of the public or as a guest per official correspondence transmitted from their attorney written by the President of the Club. I along with others have read the document. He has never been tried on any charges nor has any trumped up charges been proven or even deliberated.

[raz-0 1,259]

Seriously, I'll complain about the board more than enough, but NOBODY has any intrinsic RIGHT to anything the club does. Period. Both the club and members have contractual obligations. That's it. The club does indeed have the option to ban individuals from the club, and not just due to safety. They indeed have a legal right to refuse service to anyone for any reason that does not get into the realm of protected classes of people (i.e. race, erligion, disability, etc. ).

[Sgt251 0]

Seriously, I'll complain about the board more than enough, but NOBODY has any intrinsic RIGHT to anything the club does. Period. Both the club and members have contractual obligations. That's it. The club does indeed have the option to ban individuals from the club, and not just due to safety. They indeed have a legal right to refuse service to anyone for any reason that does not get into the realm of protected classes of people (i.e. race, erligion, disability, etc. ).

I see, interesting. So because they are a club, a gun club, and when they make arbitrary decisions and rules it's ok as long as it doesn't interere with your right to own firearms and shoot. But when the government makes arbitrary rules by way of laws that does interfere with your rights to own firearms that is not acceptable. I for one think both situations are wrong and I think it's wrong to be a hypocrite. And by the way if you do in fact complain about the board you may be in the same position as george one day. One day you may ask them the wrong question and be brought up on charges for "disrupting the good order of the club", a.k.a., they just don't like you.

[medic2264 11]

After reading the tort claim, all I can say is: wow there is gonna be a long list of discovery material requested....

[ChrismNJ 0]

just one thing to say, Can't make everyone happy, drop it! 

[raz-0 1,259]

I see, interesting. So because they are a club, a gun club, and when they make arbitrary decisions and rules it's ok as long as it doesn't interere with your right to own firearms and shoot. But when the government makes arbitrary rules by way of laws that does interfere with your rights to own firearms that is not acceptable. I for one think both situations are wrong and I think it's wrong to be a hypocrite. And by the way if you do in fact complain about the board you may be in the same position as george one day. One day you may ask them the wrong question and be brought up on charges for "disrupting the good order of the club", a.k.a., they just don't like you.

 

You can in fact not be well liked by the board and not thrown out of the club. I tend to only bitch when I see things that jeapordize the ability of the club to continue to function into the future. It's a club. You enter into a contract to participate in it.  That contract places limitations on both parties. Contracts do allow for you willingly giving up natural rights. Being told to go elsewhere impacts your ability to own and use a firearm not at all on a grand scale. It may make it less convenient, but in no way have they generally violated anyone's constitutional rights. Making believe it is so is the kind of behavior that makes people believe you are a bit wackadoo or at least to assume that everything else you state is also an overblown exaggeration. 

 

Do I believe the board is doing illegal things? Not in general, although I do think that failing to provide detailed third party accounting of the disposition of membership dues will not stand up to outside scrutiny. Do I believe they are doing stuff that would be regarded as unpopular by a significant chunk of the membership? Yes, absolutely.  Enough to get them tossed out? Probably not. Enough to make people realize they think they are way less clever than they think they are and to have a flood of people try to volunteer the boards labor to do things some other way that is, more than likely, also stupid?  Definitely. 

 

I think they got legal advice in line with my reasoning above and that is why we see them now hiring out a third party for an audit.