Federal Interstate Handgun Sales Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

[Gus 33]

How would OGAM work with all of this? If you go to PA right now and buy a long gun, they run PICS. What if you bought 2 handguns? Would PICS tell them not to sell to you? Or would they have to run NJ NICS?

 

Lots to think about with this decision.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I posted this to another forum that has a lawyer as the moderator and if I get an answer before someone does here, I'll post it. Looks like you can buy handguns in other states on the surface of this. But like the other poster said, you would probably need a P2P. It would be like buying a long rifle in PA or elsewhere, with the required NJ P2P permit.

 

Why would a P2P be required?  PA doesn't even use NJ FID cards when doing a transfer IIRC, just your DL number and SS.

 

P2P is required for in-state only if I read the law correctly.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

If you buy a gun in another state they do requires your fid. I've bought guns in 3 states and always have. Even if that state doesn't know you better believe when they call it in that person will. So if they run your fid I'm sure you will need a p2p

[mipafox 438]

You guys do realize none of this is happening, right? It's been brought up a few times already. This does not apply to the whole country.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

How would OGAM work with all of this? If you go to PA right now and buy a long gun, they run PICS. What if you bought 2 handguns? Would PICS tell them not to sell to you? Or would they have to run NJ NICS?

 

Lots to think about with this decision.

 

I don't think it matters, PA has no reporting requirements to NJ.  They literally have no system to do so.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

You guys do realize none of this is happening, right? It's been brought up a few times already. This does not apply to the whole country.

 

Duh, we know.  We're discussing the what ifs if it did.

[mipafox 438]

OK

 

I'm not sure everybody is on the same page, though.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

If you buy a gun in another state they do requires your fid. I've bought guns in 3 states and always have. Even if that state doesn't know you better believe when they call it in that person will. So if they run your fid I'm sure you will need a p2p

 

Interesting.  I wonder why they have to do that?  Is it just for the SBI#?  Because where on the background check/4477 do they need that?  Maybe an FFL can chime in here.

 

Part of my thinks its a CYA thing, kinda like how out of state retailers won't sell std. cap mags to NJ residents.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

OK I'm not sure everybody is on the same page, though.

 

It's okay.  Exciting time though

[mipafox 438]

Interesting.  I wonder why they have to do that?  Is it just for the SBI#?  Because where on the background check/4477 do they need that?  Maybe an FFL can chime in here.

 

Part of my thinks its a CYA thing, kinda like how out of state retailers won't sell std. cap mags to NJ residents.

It's already been said in this thread that FFLs are required to follow the laws of the state they are in and the state of the purchaser when dealing with items identified as firearms under federal law.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Exactly

 

Just like you have to buy a compliant model

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Exactly

 

Just like you have to buy a compliant model

Wait, I've heard Cabelas say they will transfer you a non-compliant model because it's illegal to possess it in NJ, but not in PA.  At least with long guns.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

It's already been said in this thread that FFLs are required to follow the laws of the state they are in and the state of the purchaser when dealing with items identified as firearms under federal law.

 

Interesting.  I assume this applies to online stores selling magazines (30 rounders)?

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Most distributors won't even ship a non-compliant gun into nj

[jackandjill 683]

When it comes to online sales (of magazines, long guns etc), it could be argued that the seller (vendor) retains control/ownership until the item is delivered to your door in NJ. So its as if they are delivering it themselves at your door.  As opposed to you going there and buying.  In the former case, the seller could be held responsible and in later case the buyer (you).  Its different matter if there is a federal law that requires FFLs/Shops to ensure both seller and buyer laws are honored.

[Tallday 10]

Might work out to be that buying out of state could be like a privet sale. You have your permit fill it out and respective parties send in respective forms.

[Newtonian 453]

Your question said FID. An FID is not required for a handgun.

 

FFLs are required to follow the laws of their own state and the state of the purchaser. All 52 of them (Obama reference).

Wrong. According to O'Bummer there are 57 states: 

[PeteF 1,044]

You guys do realize none of this is happening, right? It's been brought up a few times already. This does not apply to the whole country.

 

Hell NJ won't even acknowledge MacDonald.  

 

In the rest of the US Owning a Firearm is a constitutional right, in NJ all firearms are illegal EXCEPT.   I wonder how that works? A constitutional right is illegal.  Makes sense.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Wait, I've heard Cabelas say they will transfer you a non-compliant model because it's illegal to possess it in NJ, but not in PA. At least with long guns.

Cabelas wouldn't transfer me an AR that had a pinned stock no bayonet lug, a muzzle brake that was pinned and welded. It was on the used gun rack. They refused because the guy said it came with a 30 round magazine. I told him to keep the mag, they wouldnt do it. He also argued with me that the muzzle brake was a flash hider. I know the difference he obviously didn't. I asked the Asshole to send it to my FFL in Jersey to have the compliance work done before I could have it transferred to me. (Even though the only thing that needed to be done was throw the p mag in the trash and hand me the gun). He said they didn't do that. I think I called him a few not so nice things, made a big scene, and told him to learn what parts on guns they were selling actually were. And left before he pissed me off any further. Last time I ever even strolled into the gun area in that store.

 

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Cabelas wouldn't transfer me an AR that had a pinned stock no bayonet lug, a muzzle brake that was pinned and welded. It was on the used gun rack. They refused because the guy said it came with a 30 round magazine. I told him to keep the mag, they wouldnt do it. He also argued with me that the muzzle brake was a flash hider. I know the difference he obviously didn't. I asked the Asshole to send it to my FFL in Jersey to have the compliance work done before I could have it transferred to me. (Even though the only thing that needed to be done was throw the p mag in the trash and hand me the gun). He said they didn't do that. I think I called him a few not so nice things, made a big scene, and told him to learn what parts on guns they were selling actually were. And left before he pissed me off any further. Last time I ever even strolled into the gun area in that store.

 

I would've walked away and come back and spoken to someone else.  Clearly you dealt with an idiot.

 

Also, maybe Cabelas changed their policy recently? 

[mipafox 438]

 

Interesting.  I assume this applies to online stores selling magazines (30 rounders)?

 

 

No, magazines are not firearms.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Neither are pellet guns and muzzle loaders in other states

[DeerSlayer 241]

I would've walked away and come back and spoken to someone else. Clearly you dealt with an idiot.

 

Also, maybe Cabelas changed their policy recently?

The guy brought the rifle into the back to ask his boss. He came back out with it and still refused to sell it to me. And he wouldn't put it back out on the floor, he kept it behind the counter afterwards. I decided I would rather not spend my money with morons.

[mipafox 438]

 

The guy brought the rifle into the back to ask his boss. He came back out with it and still refused to sell it to me. And he wouldn't put it back out on the floor, he kept it behind the counter afterwards. I decided I would rather not spend my money with morons.

 

 

They were probably thinking the same thing. They didn't want to spend their time with morons. Not you, but Jersey as an abstract concept. They really have little incentive to parse all the technical minutiae of the laws of anti-gun states and worry about getting their FFL dinged to sell a handful of extra rifles that don't say "NJ Compliant" on the box. I doubt the FFL wants the staff diving into all these details and making judgment calls on what is a comp vs. flash hider vs. whatever. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with it unless NJ was my core business. No upside. They sell more guns out of that store each year than any other store in the world.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Fyi cabelas uses pink tags on all the nj legal ar's. Kind of fitting

[mipafox 438]

 

Fyi cabelas uses pink tags on all the nj legal ar's. Kind of fitting

 

 

If it doesn't have a pink tag you can tell the cashier that she can do the pinky test. It's not a law but it is on NJGunforums, go look. And if I can wave bones over the shotgun and chant "Klatu Verada Nicto" it will change color if that is really a pistol grip. Trust me.

 

There are guns that the forum can't even figure out if they are legal or not. In PA EVERYTHING is legal. If I lived in NJ I would definitely give preference to good local dealers and, when necessary, out of state dealers that go the extra mile to accommodate me as an NJ customer. But I sure as hell wouldn't blame any FFL for not wanting to put up with this BS or not trusting his employees to make these judgment calls.

[DeerSlayer 241]

If they don't wish to take the time to learn about what they sell, I would rather not patronize them. They should know more than a plumber does about guns. I don't sell them all day they do. If they have a jersey legal gun on the rack and don't know it that's their loss. Guarantee no PA resident would buy that neutered rifle. It was over a year ago, same gun is probably still sitting there lol.

[mikelets456 78]

You guys do realize none of this is happening, right? It's been brought up a few times already. This does not apply to the whole country.

 

One step at a time. It has to start somewhere then work its way up.

[Howard 538]

Not that this even remotely applies yet, but if it did I would think you would not need a NJ P2P.  That is a state law, and no other state has to comply with that for sales within their borders.  Thus, you could purchase a handgun legally in state "X" as long as you met Federal and state "X" requirements.  You then legally own that gun, and I believe NJ allows you to bring a gun into the state with no limitations (other than it be state compliant) that you legally obtained elsewhere.  They would somehow have to change NJ law to prohibit that, and that would likely get challenged.  Thus, when this all settles in 10 -15 years we can come back and revisit it

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

There is no current ban on interstate sales of long guns. There is a federal law that says in order for a resident of one state to purchase a long gun in another state, it must go through an FFL of either state and the laws of both states (purchase state & resident state) must be adhered to. Which means that if I go to PA and buy a long gun, I must have a FPID and the dealer is to fill out two COE's (one for him and one for the purchaser). The dealer would use PICS for the background check. What makes you think it would be different with handguns, should this become the law of the land? At that point it simply becomes a matter of whether out of state dealers are willing to do the extra work to sell a handgun to a non-resident - just as it is now for long guns.

 

A lot of people are reading way too much into this.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob