usnmars 136 Posted February 24, 2015 Does anyone even bother anymore learning to shoot with iron sights? I mean I know they are "antiquated" according to the tactical tupperware croud, but really? You rarely see anybody in the modern gun crowd shooting with irons anymore, everyone seems to be more interested in having every type of optic and magnifier and flash light possible mounted but wow.... You must learn the fundamentals of marksmanship before leaning on a crutch. I dont know what is going on in the gun world but it is turning into a strange place. Rather than taking the time to learn to shoot properly, people now just want to run around the range and act like a bunch of call of duty rejects. Come on, learn the fundamentals, the basics and become proficient before you move on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 24, 2015 I learned with iron sites and taught my family the same way. Understanding the basics first before going advanced is only logical! Do I use the best mil-spec optics on my SHTF AR? Sure I do! But if the Tritium leaked out, I could pull it off the rail and still use iron! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CAPTBIL3 10 Posted February 24, 2015 LOL you will be shunned very soon, But I 100% agree with you and share this same view, I built my AR around a year ago and it has old reliable Iron sites on it, I dont like the idea of having no sight when a battery fails and they do FAIL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tuktuk 16 Posted February 24, 2015 Amen I don't have any holographic sights / scopes on any of my rifles anymore. Trying to shoot iron sights mostly ... althou my eyes are not that good anymore unfortunately Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usnmars 136 Posted February 24, 2015 I went to the range today and witnessed 2 AR guys that had no friggin clue how to use iron sights. They were shooting and I let them try my 30-30, and I had to explain iron sights to them. They couldn't believe I was busting clay birds on the berm regularly with irons.... I just was in a state of shock and couldnt help but think how many times recently Ive seen this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 24, 2015 I went to the range today and witnessed 2 AR guys that had no friggin clue how to use iron sights. They were shooting and I let them try my 30-30, and I had to explain iron sights to them. They couldn't believe I was busting clay birds on the berm regularly with irons.... I just was in a state of shock and couldnt help but think how many times recently Ive seen this. How can you own a gun and not understand something as basic as a simple sight picture? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frank Rizzo 59 Posted February 24, 2015 Majority of what I shoot is through iron sights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lalo 13 Posted February 24, 2015 When shooting my AR's, I always start my range session with optics turned off shooting with the iron sights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted February 24, 2015 I never shoot iron sights on guns equipped with RDS unless I am zeroing them. Why bother? Training time and ammo is limited, why waste time on something I will most likely never use. A quality RDS is faster, more accurate, keeps better SA, is extremely reliable, and is easier to use in any shooting position especially assymetrical/non standard positions. If you think a RDS is a crutch, or that you don't need to exersize the fundamentals of marksmanship while using one, you are mistaken. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrismNJ 0 Posted February 24, 2015 lol, everyone wants to be the next american sniper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted February 24, 2015 I never shoot iron sights on guns equipped with RDS unless I am zeroing them. Why bother? Training time and ammo is limited, why waste time on something I will most likely never use. A quality RDS is faster, more accurate, keeps better SA, is extremely reliable, and is easier to use in any shooting position especially assymetrical/non standard positions. If you think a RDS is a crutch, or that you don't need to exersize the fundamentals of marksmanship while using one, you are mistaken. But an RDS uses a battery and can fail! Then what do you do? Since most SD shootings are point and shoot at close range rather than truly aim and fire. I guess it doesn't matter much. My AR has a Trijicon sight so unless the radioactive Tritium leaks out it's still useful! Albeit an amber triangle rather than a red dot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blake 50 Posted February 24, 2015 I have irons on all my rifles. Sight them in and generally don't use them again unless its a rifle with a fixed mag optic and offset irons. The exceptions are ak's and antique rifles which just have the irons on em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted February 24, 2015 But an RDS uses a battery and can fail! Then what do you do? Since most SD shootings are point and shoot at close range rather than truly aim and fire. I guess it doesn't matter much. My AR has a Trijicon sight so unless the radioactive Tritium leaks out it's still useful! Albeit an amber triangle rather than a red dot. My RDS have either a 50,000 or a 70,000 hour battery life depending on the model. I put fresh ones in every January in any case. Do the math. I'll take my battery powered Aimpoint over that Trijicon Reflex all day long. That optic's reticle washes out horribly when using white light in low light situations. It was originally issued in the SOPMOD Kit. It was quickly removed and for cause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
302w 83 Posted February 24, 2015 The only gun I shunned irons on was a Mosin-Nagant... that was when I realized the front sight post took up the entire target at 100 yards. My AR15 has A1 irons, and everything else has stock irons. I do appreciate a nice bolt action sporter with a quality scope and bipod. Also, shun me all you want, but I dislike my 1903 sights and wish it were an A3-03. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 24, 2015 I think it would be a mistake to assume that those that don't use them cant. Indeed I have my preferences for what Iron sights adorn my rifles but you will rarely find me using them and in fact every rifle I own has an optic on it. They are still zeroed. But they are a backup. There is simply no denying the advantages optics bring to the table. The delta of difference at 25 yards for equal shooters might be small, but take two equal shooters and give them a coarse of fire that includes movement and a significant variance in range to target, the person with the optic will do much better than the one without. Add in a set of aging eyes and for many it becomes a necessity. Add in low-light/no-light scenarios and that delta grows exponentially. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted February 24, 2015 "But an RDS uses a battery and can fail! Then what do you do?" Depending on distance, it makes a handy ghost ring. Try it, I think you would be surprised how well you can still hit your target. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,871 Posted February 24, 2015 I know how to shoot with Irons but I'm not that good with them. My glasses make it hard to focus on the front sight itself a lot of the time - I have a horrible prescription and astigmatism on top of it. Trying to sight irons on my 10/22 or Henry Golden Boy is a chore. So while I can shoot with irons, I prefer optics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OfcrFek 21 Posted February 24, 2015 Zero'ing the optic/taking a class/training = RDS Having fun on the range = Irons Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norseman 2 Posted February 24, 2015 I'm new to the AR platform and still enjoying shooting with irons. Probably this spring or summer I'll get an aim point or eotec Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccrides350 1 Posted February 24, 2015 I purposely keep my 15-22 iron sights only just stay proficient on them. I do play with my back up sights on my AR too occasionally, mostly to make sure they still are zeroed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted February 24, 2015 I use my back ups all the time, but it probably looks like im still used the red dot becuase of the co-witness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,128 Posted February 24, 2015 There's a whole bunch of us that come out on Saturday mornings during the season at Cumberland Riflemen in Millville who shoot iron sights in the 600yd MidRange Prone matches. And with slings - no bipods or bags or rests! And some are even shooting 20" Service Rifles (A2 AR15's) 600yd slow fire prone makes for some great marksmanship practice! PM me if you're interested. The Cumberland season begins April 11 and 12 this year (Easter is the first weekend of the month) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuRrEaLNJ 294 Posted February 24, 2015 i have a strikefire for my saiga, which it will get when i get around to converting it i do shoot it with irons now though. my mini is set up with just the tech sight irons, and even with the huge front blade is a ton of fun to shoot thta way. also shoot alot of garand and mosin-type-things. i currently have nothing with an optic mounted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vlad G 345 Posted February 24, 2015 Anyone driving an automatic not a manual car is using a crutch. Anyone shooting a semi-auto handgun instead of a revolver is cheating. Anyone using electric lighting instead of candles is not a real man. Anyone using a keyboard does not the understand the fundamentals of zero's and one's and should learn how to use punch card. I don't understand why anyone is not practicing navigating their car with paper and compass and instead using these modern GPS's. Everyone wants to pretend they are being special and warming up their house with gas heating instead of shoveling coal. It sounds THAT ridiculous. Oh .. and iron sights break too. I've broken more iron sights then optics actually. All that said, my social rifles have optics and irons and I know how to shoot both well enough. My competition rifle has ditched irons in this iteration, because they are so inferior I don't even want to be tempted to use them, I rather eat the penalties on that stage and borrow a rifle for the rest of the match. I suspect this article making the rounds is the cause of this post though: http://weaponsman.com/?p=20989 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 177 Posted February 24, 2015 I believe a shooter should be proficient with irons. I would say to not be presumptuous that someone using an optic at the range doesn't know the fundamentals of iron sights. Also I believe it is a good thing that more folks are taking up military tactics and practicing at the range. I see nothing wrong with it but for some reason there are folks that cry mall ninja or wannabe call of duty babies. Same goes for the tactical shooting crowd calling people "fudds". No need for any of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns 16 Posted February 24, 2015 When I do teach my kids to shoot I will have them learn on iron sights first then move up to optics. I just ordered tech sights for my marlin 795, hopefully they will live up to their reputation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old School 611 Posted February 24, 2015 When I do teach my kids to shoot I will have them learn on iron sights first then move up to optics. I just ordered tech sights for my marlin 795, hopefully they will live up to their reputation. Have taught four kids. All started with irons. One guy has taken to long distance and shoots optics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted February 24, 2015 Look at cars today, more and more of them you push a button and it parallel parks it for you...same thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,634 Posted February 24, 2015 Anyone driving an automatic not a manual car is using a crutch. Anyone shooting a semi-auto handgun instead of a revolver is cheating. Anyone using electric lighting instead of candles is not a real man. Anyone using a keyboard does not the understand the fundamentals of zero's and one's and should learn how to use punch card. I don't understand why anyone is not practicing navigating their car with paper and compass and instead using these modern GPS's. Everyone wants to pretend they are being special and warming up their house with gas heating instead of shoveling coal. It sounds THAT ridiculous. Oh .. and iron sights break too. I've broken more iron sights then optics actually. All that said, my social rifles have optics and irons and I know how to shoot both well enough. My competition rifle has ditched irons in this iteration, because they are so inferior I don't even want to be tempted to use them, I rather eat the penalties on that stage and borrow a rifle for the rest of the match. I suspect this article making the rounds is the cause of this post though: http://weaponsman.com/?p=20989 Exactly. Well said Vlad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD2K 115 Posted February 24, 2015 I think it depends when the person started shooting. If you started when young, you generally shot with an older rifle with iron sights. If you started as an adult, you bought yourself a pimped out black rifle. Because as an adult, you can buy yourself nice toys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites