Action Alert: Forum on Gun Violence in Hackensack, 3/19/2015

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Looks like a one-sided panel discussing Gun Violence in America.

 

Gun Violence in America

 

The Achievable Safe Solutions

 

Most Americans support common sense gun safety measures and anguish over the needless gun deaths that occur across our country every day. How do we change our culture and our policies to stop this cycle of violence while respecting the rights of law abiding gun owners?

 

Hear from four leading experts in the gun policy arena:

 

 Adam Skaggs, Senior Counsel at Everytown for Gun Safety

 Steven Fulop, Mayor of Jersey City, and member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns

 Rabbi-Hazzan Shaul Marshall Praver, spiritual leader of Congregation Adath Israel of Newtown Connecticut

 Mandi Perlmutter, Advocacy Lead of the NJ Chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America

 

Here's the link with the info:

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/3c3ed1a61781c0312e3c8a16f/files/NJPPNFlyer.pdf?utm_source=BergenCPGV&utm_campaign=fb718c3292-Non_signers7_21_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_16a2f671b7-fb718c3292-98633229

 

I'm planning to attend, and if possible, to ask some polite, pointed questions.

[jackandjill 683]

Didnt they had this couple of months back ? I sent a very polite letter requesting to invite someone from "law abiding gun owners" since it was mentioned in the agenda.  I got response telling me that this has nothing to do with "law abiding gun owners".  I politely highlighted the agenda "while respecting the rights of law abiding gun owners", I never heard back again.

 

I think some from this forum attended that event and commented how they hired armed personnel as guards outside. funny.

 

So yes, its clearly one sided conversation. Someone got to take that Bloomberg "donation" and show some output.

[Bully 749]

Unfortunately that is my late night to work. Otherwise I would be there in a heartbeat. Sorry I can't make it.

 

C

[JimmyAGR 54]

I will try and attend. Maybe we can draw up a list of counter points to what assuredly be an anti 2nd amendment night?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I would like to ask them what they hope to accomplish by "universal background checks," which is a drum they have been beating lately.  And follow up with:

 

 

1.) Don't we mostly already have them in NJ, since no one can buy a firearm without an FID card?

2.) How would they have prevented tragic shootings like Newtown?

3.) How are they going to get criminals to comply?

 

Isn't it true that UBC's are just a way to compile a national registry, something that has always preceded confiscation?

 

If I'm feeling really emboldened, I might tell them that I would respect them more if they just came out and said they didn't think people should own guns.

And that since they can't just take them all away, due to that pesky Second Amendment, they are going to chip away at the rights of gun owners

little by little.  But I doubt I'll be bold enough to pull that last one off.  :-)

[Fred2 367]

It looks like this is one giant bloomberg thing.

 

I wonder if they will be serving 16 oz soft drinks as part of their "social refreshments"

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

Says seating is limited and to ore register, couldn't we just steal all the seats

[siderman 1,137]

dont get your hopes too high about asking questions. Probably wont be an open session with the audience but your questions will be submitted on a card, screened and scrutinized. A real q/a means they will actually need to be accountable for true common sense responses to questions they dont want asked.

ETA: i went to few of these public forums a few yrs ago with Loretta Weinbitch and was able to get in a question which was  -"how many violent gun crimes are commited by holders of the FPID card? I'd wager so few if any it is statistically irrelevent so why are most of the proposed gun laws targeting the law abiding citizens?"  of course shr said it would be looked into.....

[magnawing 5]

Just use my favorite line..."the government already tried an experiment with civilian gun control, 75 years ago....in GERMANY. And we all know how that turned out."

 

 

This signature is AWESOME!!!

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

I know the commies won't let us get a word in that dosnt suit their agenda

 

I just literally meant if we all register and space is limited we could either fill the room or have all empty seats so idiots can't go

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I know the commies won't let us get a word in that dosnt suit their agenda

 

I just literally meant if we all register and space is limited we could either fill the room or have all empty seats so idiots can't go

 

That sounds like a great plan.  Imagine if they had to give this presentation to a hostile audience, like us.  I'm registering now.

[boo 6]

I think I'm going as well. In addition to taking up their seats, we can eat all their food, lol.

[MikeL 3]

Right in my back yard. Registering!

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

I rsvpd but may have to work worst case I mess up their attendance, best case I get free food

[Kevin125 4,772]

Just use my favorite line..."the government already tried an experiment with civilian gun control, 75 years ago....in GERMANY. And we all know how that turned out."This signature is AWESOME!!!

Right, make guns illegal. It worked with drugs... Didn't it??. Ahhh....guess not.

 

I agree that this won't be an open Q&A type event. It will be a marketing campaign for their agenda and a membership drive for the anti gun groups.

 

My suggestions is register and take up all the seats.

[Kevin125 4,772]

Looking at their Blog.....Climate Action NJ....Climate Policy.....Income inequality. Just so you know, this group appears to be a far left organization. Not looking for commentary on these issues in this thread, just informing those interested about who they appear to be.

[PD2K 115]

Looks like a one-sided panel discussing Gun Violence in America.

 

Gun Violence in America

 

The Achievable Safe Solutions

 

Most Americans support common sense gun safety measures and anguish over the needless gun deaths that occur across our country every day. How do we change our culture and our policies to stop this cycle of violence while respecting the rights of law abiding gun owners?

 

Hear from four leading experts in the gun policy arena:

 

 Adam Skaggs, Senior Counsel at Everytown for Gun Safety

 Steven Fulop, Mayor of Jersey City, and member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns

 Rabbi-Hazzan Shaul Marshall Praver, spiritual leader of Congregation Adath Israel of Newtown Connecticut

 Mandi Perlmutter, Advocacy Lead of the NJ Chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America

 

Here's the link with the info:

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/3c3ed1a61781c0312e3c8a16f/files/NJPPNFlyer.pdf?utm_source=BergenCPGV&utm_campaign=fb718c3292-Non_signers7_21_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_16a2f671b7-fb718c3292-98633229

 

I'm planning to attend, and if possible, to ask some polite, pointed questions.

 

Looks like the who's who of NJ left wing wack jobs

[Barms 98]

The way you get in questions is not to make it so obvious you are 2A. Like when someone asked me at the mall to sign a petition I said "so how does it work for someone to buy a handgun in NJ? Can you explain the process to me?" And she totally got it wrong.

 

So if you are able to ask questions you put it back on them to explain the facts and they dig their own holes.

 

If they DONT say you get a P2P first and then another NICS check then you can blast them for lying. But if they actually tell the truth then you just say "isn't that system already in place a great system? So you're admitting that criminals can't legally get guns.

 

You gotta get them to vocalize OUR facts. Not just let them say stuff like "we need UCB..." Just get them to admit it's extremely difficult for a person in NJ to get a gun.

 

Background

Mental health

References

Finger prints

 

Just go "so can I just walk into a store and buy a gun in NJ?"

[Norseman 2]

I like that idea lol

I'm checking my work calendar in the morning and if I'm free I'm registering. I'm really commenting so this will come up in my "Participated" threads and I don't forget.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Anyone else going to this? I still plan on attending. I think I am going to be undercover posing as an anti, so I can ask some "innocent" questions.

 

How will we recognize each other? NRA hats might be a little too obvious. :-)

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

I'll be there

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

I don't think I'm gonna get out of work until to late to make it tomorrow but I'm going to try and hit it from work. if I do I'll be the long haired bearded guy in business casual khakis and black polo. Although ithought about wearing the "shove gun control up your... "Shirt. I did rsvp for 6 though XD

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

I'm here. 3rd row, center section. Anyone else?

[Taipan 0]

i went to few of these public forums a few yrs ago with Loretta Weinbitch and was able to get in a question which was  -"how many violent gun crimes are commited by holders of the FPID card? 

 

I asked that same question of Union County Sheriff Ralph Froehlich a couple years ago when he hosted one of these programs in Westfield.   He had no answer.

[ogfarmer 138]

[MeanderingCuban 8]

What we should have is a picture of the ratio of Anti-2A folks to Pro-2A folks.  There were approximately eight perhaps ten  Pro-2A folks in a audience. In other words the Pro-2A's turnout was pitiful and embarrassing. Folk in NJ wonder how NJ got so bad. The answer was in the low turnout.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

There might have been more of us there than people realized.  I sat in the back and took it all in without saying a word.

 

Ogfarmer, was that you who gave that articulate discourse on why we should be allowed to have concealed carry?  We met once, briefly, a

couple of years ago, and I thought that might have been you.  Your civil manner was in striking contrast to that of many of our 2A brethren,

whose behavior I frankly found to be embarrassing.  Their Tourettes-like outbursts did nothing to help the perception among many outside

of our community of us as angry, knuckle-dragging savages.  (Yes, I'm talking about Kaleda, for whom I had respect and admiration prior to

this.)  If there was some benefit to our cause of getting into a shouting match with the other side, it was lost on me.

 

The rabbi on the panel was a voice of reason.  On the other hand, Ms. Perlmutter explained to us why guns don't save lives, why they contribute to murders and

suicides, why they would not protect women from domestic violence and home invasions, and on and on.  I would have had more respect for

her if she just went ahead and said that she did not think anyone should be allowed to own guns.

 

The Everytown lawyer spent a lot of time explaining about how restrictions on the Second Amendment have a long and strong history.

He pointed out that the debate on restrictions has intensified in the last 40 years, but did not speculate on why that might be.

Could it be that defenders of 2A feel more and more threatened by ever-increasing attempts to deprive them of their rights?

 

Mayor Fulop is clearly another government official who feels that private citizens cannot be trusted with guns.  While I respect his

service to our country in the military, I could not help but cringe when he started that familiar litany of how AR-15's are weapons of

war that belong on the battlefields, not on our streets.  Heaven help us if he becomes governor!

 

At one point someone mentioned that at a prior panel, where the 2A people were being belligerent, Loretta Weinberg asked them to

name one new gun law that they would be willing to accept.  Her question would perhaps be valid if we had no other gun laws, but

what she was really asking was what further restriction we would be willing to accept.  And I think that is the crux of the issue,

that 2A supporters feel that every tragic incident is exploited to further curtail their rights.  

 

There was no way that a panel discussion like last night was going to solve anything, but it made for great entertainment.

[45Doll 5,877]

Your civil manner was in striking contrast to that of many of our 2A brethren, whose behavior I frankly found to be embarrassing.  Their Tourettes-like outbursts did nothing to help the perception among many outside of our community of us as angry, knuckle-dragging savages.  (Yes, I'm talking about Kaleda, for whom I had respect and admiration prior to this.)

Thank you for that rather detailed account. I was not there, but I witnessed exactly what you're referring to in another meeting I attended. And I agree with your assessment.

 

The committed anti-2A/gun people will never be converted by anything we say, least of all if delivered with interruption and down-shouting. I can only see one reason for pro-2A people to attend a meeting set up like this, and that is to persuade anyone there who is honestly searching for an answer or opinion that our position is the one most in their own interest; to provide a counterweight to the propaganda and distortions typically presented.

 

In my opinion the best way to do that is with facts and well-reasoned and derived positions, presented in a persuasive manner and using the opponents position against them wherever and however possible. Persuading can be effective. Interrupting and shouting never will be and should be avoided at all costs, no matter how frustrated we are.

[siderman 1,137]

There might have been more of us there than people realized.  I sat in the back and took it all in without saying a word.

 

Ogfarmer, was that you who gave that articulate discourse on why we should be allowed to have concealed carry?  We met once, briefly, a

couple of years ago, and I thought that might have been you.  Your civil manner was in striking contrast to that of many of our 2A brethren,

whose behavior I frankly found to be embarrassing.  Their Tourettes-like outbursts did nothing to help the perception among many outside

of our community of us as angry, knuckle-dragging savages.  (Yes, I'm talking about Kaleda, for whom I had respect and admiration prior to

this.)  If there was some benefit to our cause of getting into a shouting match with the other side, it was lost on me.

 

The rabbi on the panel was a voice of reason.  On the other hand, Ms. Perlmutter explained to us why guns don't save lives, why they contribute to murders and

suicides, why they would not protect women from domestic violence and home invasions, and on and on.  I would have had more respect for

her if she just went ahead and said that she did not think anyone should be allowed to own guns.

 

The Everytown lawyer spent a lot of time explaining about how restrictions on the Second Amendment have a long and strong history.

He pointed out that the debate on restrictions has intensified in the last 40 years, but did not speculate on why that might be.

Could it be that defenders of 2A feel more and more threatened by ever-increasing attempts to deprive them of their rights?

 

Mayor Fulop is clearly another government official who feels that private citizens cannot be trusted with guns.  While I respect his

service to our country in the military, I could not help but cringe when he started that familiar litany of how AR-15's are weapons of

war that belong on the battlefields, not on our streets.  Heaven help us if he becomes governor!

 

At one point someone mentioned that at a prior panel, where the 2A people were being belligerent, Loretta Weinberg asked them to

name one new gun law that they would be willing to accept.  Her question would perhaps be valid if we had no other gun laws, but

what she was really asking was what further restriction we would be willing to accept.  And I think that is the crux of the issue,

that 2A supporters feel that every tragic incident is exploited to further curtail their rights.  

 

There was no way that a panel discussion like last night was going to solve anything, but it made for great entertainment.

thanks for your post. BTW, another thread with this discussion

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/75824-jersey-city-mayor-newtown-rabbi-speaking-at-gun-violence-forum-at-fdu/

[ogfarmer 138]

I Wasn't there I stole that pic from Alexander Rubian on FB