Inconsistent 223 COAL

[302w 83]

What can cause an inconsistent COAL? I suspect it is my inconsistent case length, but I am unsure.

 

I was using an RCBS competition die with 223 brass, 24.5 grains of H4895, and unknown manufacturer FMJ BT 55 grain that actually measured 54.5. I adjusted it to seat at 2.260, but my cases were varying from 2.257-2.267. I went through them with my regular seating die and most of them are around 2.257 now, plus or minus .001.

 

What am I doing wrong? I plan on buying a Lee FCD since they have cannelures.

[AverageJoe 95]

Are all your cases trimmed to the same length? I get that with my pistol ammo, i.e. my 9mm will vary 1.055-1.065 depending on the brass manufact.

 

Couple of things can cause it...A. inconsistent case lengths, B. inconsistent ogive, usually doesnt change within the same lot #, but never know.

[302w 83]

My brass is wildly inconsistent which I suspect is the issue. Although, I would think that it would be irrelevant because the case holder should always be the same exact distance from the bullet seater, therefore the same COAL. I'm all new to this stuff.

 

What is also a good COAL? 2.260" is max, so I'm thinking about going to 2.250" although most are at 2.200". 

[JTS1469 0]

I had a similar problem with mine. Turned out I had to shim the top plate, it had a slight wiggle. shimmed it with a feeler gauge problem solved.

[AverageJoe 95]

My brass is wildly inconsistent which I suspect is the issue. Although, I would think that it would be irrelevant because the case holder should always be the same exact distance from the bullet seater, therefore the same COAL. I'm all new to this stuff.

 

What is also a good COAL? 2.260" is max, so I'm thinking about going to 2.250" although most are at 2.200". 

 

I haven't started loading rifle yet, but I'm pretty sure you don't want this with rifle which is why the need for trimming rifle cases over pistol. Think about it, the case holder only goes so high and the dies are stationary, shorter case, means it doesn't go up as high, bullet doesn't get seated as much, results in a longer oal...longer case results in a shorter oal.

[carl_g 568]

What is also a good COAL? 2.260" is max, so I'm thinking about going to 2.250" although most are at 2.200". 

I shoot for 2.220 COAL

[MidwestPX 172]

My brass is wildly inconsistent which I suspect is the issue. Although, I would think that it would be irrelevant because the case holder should always be the same exact distance from the bullet seater, therefore the same COAL. I'm all new to this stuff.

 

What is also a good COAL? 2.260" is max, so I'm thinking about going to 2.250" although most are at 2.200". 

Sometimes, you'll get variation.  My Dillon has about +/- .004" in variation but I don't sweat it.  For 55gr FMJ with a cannelure, I typically shoot for 2.200" COAL as that puts the crimp on the cannelure.  But I also load Hornady bullets and they place the cannelure on the bullet for a 2.200" COAL.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Do you have calipers to measure and a case trimmer? Max case length is about 1.760" on .223. I trim mine after sizing to 1.750" without nothing to measure. I have a trimmer setup and just run all my sized, cleaned brass through it.

[Old School 611]

COAL has NOTHING to do with case length.  Think about it !!!

 

Inconnsistant bullet ogive , sloopy seating die, dirty seating die.

[Vlad G 345]

COAL has NOTHING to do with case length.  Think about it !!!

Sure it can, specially on a progressive press. Think about it. Hint: it isn't the sitting station that screws you.

[Old School 611]

Well spill the beans. It's the distance from the bullet tip to the case head. The seating die pushes the bullet in the same depth no matter how long the case is.

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

Well spill the beans. It's the distance from the bullet tip to the case head. The seating die pushes the bullet in the same depth no matter how long the case is.

Oh you like to be mysterious about these things, turnaround is fair play I think. So think about it .. if the cases are different length how might that change the stroke of the entire press and limit its range of motion.

[Vlad G 345]

Also, take a look at the inside of this sitting die and how sure are you that an over-length case won't end up with uneven sitting?

 

[Old School 611]

So you're saying your not getting full stroke in the sizing station? Subsequently not seating the bullet all the way in the seating station? I don't know about that. Bulk bullets and even SMKs have ogive variations. That's why some folks sort bullets.

 

 

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[Old School 611]

Also, take a look at the inside of this sitting die and how sure are you that an over-length case won't end up with uneven sitting?

 

 

See the clearance at the case mouth? Impossible.

 

 

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[Vlad G 345]

I'm saying that the sizing AND possibly powder station may change how much the press moves. If I have a longer then usual case in the powder station, depending on powder measure design, it may end up with not allowing a full stroke of the press, ending up with longer COAL for the sitting die.

[Vlad G 345]

See the clearance at the case mouth? Impossible.

Err, depends on how long the case is. If the case is long enough, nothing is impossible.

[Vlad G 345]

Also for the OP, check out your primer sitting depth as well. If you do not consistently sit your primers bellow flush, you may also end up with uneven seating depth.

[Old School 611]

Two things. If your stroke theory was correct the press needs better set up

 

Number two if the case you showed jammed that seating die that rifle would have blown up because the case mouth would have been jammed in the rifling.

 

 

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[Old School 611]

Bottom line is cartridge overall length variation doesn't matter as much as ogive to case head as long as they feed.

 

 

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[302w 83]

Let me ask all of you this:

 

For "blaster" plinking ammo, does it matter? I realize that there will be a change in pressure from case-to-case and such, but if I seat at 2.240" my range would probably be 2.237-2.247". I don't know what factory ammunition tolerance is, but 10 thousandths of an inch isn't huge at all. Plus, I'm over minimum length anyway so it shouldn't be a safety issue, IMHO.

 

In fact, more incentive to load "blaster" ammo and "match" ammo for my bolt gun. 

 

And the general contentious is it is my bullets and/or cases, not my equipment, right? 

 

How would a Lee FCD work with my varying ammo? I don't want to crush cases. 

 

Thanks!

[Vlad G 345]

For blaster ammo it probably doesn't matter as long as your staying outside the minimum length for that load. 

 

You might care about crimping if the bullets have a canelure and you are not falling on it constantly.  Depending on your neck tension maybe not even crimp at all.  For example I don't crimp "match" ammo, and I apply a light crimp on blasting ammo, which is normally inside the canelure. 

 

I can't tell you for a fact that it is all in the bullet/case or your equipment, either can cause, depending on multiple variables.  However, I wouldn't be too worried about it unless you have that much variation with equal cases and FMJ ammo. Note that if you said OTM bullets, I would be even less concerned, OTM bullets are a lot harder to get to the same COAL. 

[302w 83]

I'm new. Whats OTM? Other than match?

 

Edit: I should stop asking stupid questions. Google told me open tip match.

 

I am using 55 grain unknown manufacturer FMJ pills with cannelure 

[raz-0 1,259]

I'm new. Whats OTM? Other than match?

 

Edit: I should stop asking stupid questions. Google told me open tip match.

 

I am using 55 grain unknown manufacturer FMJ pills with cannelure 

 

open tip match.

[Old School 611]

Get one of these and you'll know that your bullets are in consistant

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/365474/ptg-bullet-comparator-17-20-22-27-30-33-calibers?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

And one of these which you should be checking you cases with anyway...It measures datum line to both case mouth and case head.

Case length is BS unless you know both these dimensions.

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/456614/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-223-remington?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

Call me if you're really concerned this thread is all over the place. And I don't agree with much of it.

[Rob0115 1,105]

COAL has NOTHING to do with case length.  Think about it !!!

 

Inconnsistant bullet ogive , sloopy seating die, dirty seating die.

Agreed, I point this out because the OP is a bit newer to reloading if memory serves me correctly.  I think brass trimming is an important part of loading rifle cartridges.  I like to have consistent case length as well as consistent COL.  There is no reason why his COL is inconsistent based on case length so it must be something else.  I'm leaning toward the latter two that you pointed out.  I think the OP should check these things and make sure that he is consistently going to a full stroke every time he seats a bullet in the case.  I think he should also make sure that the ring is tight on the press so that the die isn't moving around providing another source of inconsistent COL.

 

I trim cases without bothering to measure, if nothing is trimmed I check to see if the case is to short.  If it is I chuck it, what's a couple of pieces of brass for the sake of consistency?  I do this for plinking or better quality ammo.  Then again, I'm one of those folks who doesn't reload just to save money, but I enjoy the quality of the product, the process and the therapy it provides.  It allows me to enjoy my hobby even when I can't get to the range.   

[Old School 611]

Agreed, I point this out because the OP is a bit newer to reloading if memory serves me correctly.  I think brass trimming is an important part of loading rifle cartridges.  I like to have consistent case length as well as consistent COL.  There is no reason why his COL is inconsistent based on case length so it must be something else.  I'm leaning toward the latter two that you pointed out.  I think the OP should check these things and make sure that he is consistently going to a full stroke every time he seats a bullet in the case.  I think he should also make sure that the ring is tight on the press so that the die isn't moving around providing another source of inconsistent COL.

 

I trim cases without bothering to measure, if nothing is trimmed I check to see if the case is to short.  If it is I chuck it, what's a couple of pieces of brass for the sake of consistency?  I do this for plinking or better quality ammo.  Then again, I'm one of those folks who doesn't reload just to save money, but I enjoy the quality of the product, the process and the therapy it provides.  It allows me to enjoy my hobby even when I can't get to the range.   

 

Thank God someone understands cartridge / camber design.

 

I'm tired of the know it alls giving out bad info.

 

BTW Rob - My new rifle should be test fired this weekend.

[Vlad G 345]

I'm tired of the know it alls giving out bad info.

Yup, but someone us don't feel a need to insult others that disagree with us and advise people to get as much information as possible and make their own decisions. Some of us resort to childish name calling. Maybe it is an old school thing I'm not familiar with.

[Old School 611]

Yup, but someone us don't feel a need to insult others that disagree with us and advise people to get as much information as possible and make their own decisions. Some of us resort to childish name calling. Maybe it is an old school thing I'm not familiar with.

 

No body mentioned you.

 

BTW there is NO disagree.  Only right and wrong.

 

As far as you opinions in this thread, your lack of case design surprises me.

[Vlad G 345]

You know .. if there was only a away to measure things and see who is right and who was wrong. Personally I've conducted the test where I've used very long and very short trimmed cases on purpose to check what effect it has on the final length of the cartridge, particularly in a progressive press. I think I'll believe my lying eyes.

 

The rest I'm taking to PM as to not continue trashing the thread.