Inconsistent 223 COAL

[AverageJoe 95]

You know .. if there was only a away to measure things and see who is right and who was wrong. Personally I've conducted the test where I've used very long and very short trimmed cases on purpose to check what effect it has on the final length of the cartridge, particularly in a progressive press. I think I'll believe my lying eyes.

 

The rest I'm taking to PM as to not continue trashing the thread.

I too get the same result with 9mm, slightly longer cases end up yielding a shorter bullet and vice versa the shorter cases give me a  longer bullet...I just took out the calipers .746 case length gave me 1.064 oal....and .750 case length gave me 1.060 oal.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Thank God someone understands cartridge / camber design.

 

I'm tired of the know it alls giving out bad info.

 

BTW Rob - My new rifle should be test fired this weekend.

I'm hoping mine is right behind yours in line. Can't wait to try it out. I bought some 4895 it seems to be where the data is and I have 6.8 recipes for that powder. We shOuld discuss optics when they come back.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I haven't started loading rifle yet, but I'm pretty sure you don't want this with rifle which is why the need for trimming rifle cases over pistol. Think about it, the case holder only goes so high and the dies are stationary, shorter case, means it doesn't go up as high, bullet doesn't get seated as much, results in a longer oal...longer case results in a shorter oal.

I think oal remains consistent just shallower and deeper seating based on long or short case

[AverageJoe 95]

I think oal remains consistent just shallower and deeper seating based on long or short case

It doesn't...I can't explain it, just that I know I have an oal range of 1.055 for the longer cases and 1.065 for the shorter ones, I dunno. When I was trying to get consistent 1.060 I was getting a range of 1.50-1.60...thinking 1.050 was too short I started measuring the cases and i was getting 3 different averages, took the middle average and seated to 1.060...getting my range to 1.055-1.065...using the Lee Classic Turret.

[Vlad G 345]

AverageJoe, what press are you using?

[AverageJoe 95]

AverageJoe, what press are you using?

Just edited my post above.

[Old School 611]

I'm hoping mine is right behind yours in line. Can't wait to try it out. I bought some 4895 it seems to be where the data is and I have 6.8 recipes for that powder. We shOuld discuss optics when they come back.

 

PM sent

[Rob0115 1,105]

Are you loading depth based on a cannelure in the bullet or all to same preset depth?

[AverageJoe 95]

Are you loading depth based on a cannelure in the bullet or all to same preset depth?

Preset depth, no cannelure on the Xtreme pistol caliber bullets.

[Spartiati 63]

It doesn't...I can't explain it, just that I know I have an oal range of 1.055 for the longer cases and 1.065 for the shorter ones, I dunno. When I was trying to get consistent 1.060 I was getting a range of 1.50-1.60...thinking 1.050 was too short I started measuring the cases and i was getting 3 different averages, took the middle average and seated to 1.060...getting my range to 1.055-1.065...using the Lee Classic Turret.

I too have experienced this as well. I use a few different case manufactures for 45acp and when I switch between them using the same bullets my seating die needs to be adjusted in order to maintain OAL.

 

This has puzzled me for some time as the distance from contact point of bullet in seating die to the shell plate doesn't change so you would think you'd get the same OAL with different cases but I don't. If some one could explain this would be great.

 

I use a Dillon xl650. Other things I have noticed that will effect OAL is a shell plate that is not properly torque down, not having a full shell plate when a bullet is being seated I.e. Not having a case in all stations, and a tool head that moves. I have fixed the latter by threading the tool head and screwing it to the machine.

[AverageJoe 95]

I too have experienced this as well. I use a few different case manufactures for 45acp and when I switch between them using the same bullets my seating die needs to be adjusted in order to maintain OAL.

 

This has puzzled me for some time as the distance from contact point of bullet in seating die to the shell plate doesn't change so you would think you'd get the same OAL with different cases but I don't. If some one could explain this would be great.

 

I use a Dillon xl650. Other things I have noticed that will effect OAL is a shell plate that is not properly torque down, not having a full shell plate when a bullet is being seated I.e. Not having a case in all stations, and a tool head that moves. I have fixed the latter by threading the tool head and screwing it to the machine.

What I've come up with so far is this...the die doesn't move, the shell plate does...so we're not pushing the bullet down into the case, we're pushing that case up around the bullet...when the handle stops so does the shell plate...picture the die not being there, and if 2 cases of different lengths could fit on the shell plate, when the shell plate stops, the taller case crosses the finish first...this is with pistol calibers where trimming doesnt usually take place...NOW...with rifle where you trim / neck size etc etc...they should all be pretty much uniform in size and should just about all come to the same OAL. This is also why I never mix lots together as sometimes a different lot can have a slightly different ogive...this will make the bullet hit up into the die at a different point, resulting is different measurements as well. Im not professional re loader, but my logical thinking is usually on point lol...always willing to learn tho.

[Spartiati 63]

What I've come up with so far is this...the die doesn't move, the shell plate does...so we're not pushing the bullet down into the case, we're pushing that case up around the bullet...when the handle stops so does the shell plate...picture the die not being there, and if 2 cases of different lengths could fit on the shell plate, when the shell plate stops, the taller case crosses the finish first...this is with pistol calibers where trimming doesnt usually take place...NOW...with rifle where you trim / neck size etc etc...they should all be pretty much uniform in size and should just about all come to the same OAL. This is also why I never mix lots together as sometimes a different lot can have a slightly different ogive...this will make the bullet hit up into the die at a different point, resulting is different measurements as well. Im not professional re loader, but my logical thinking is usually on point lol...always willing to learn tho.

 

I thought this at first as well but if distance between shell plate and die doesn't change with a full pull of the lever then regardless of case length the OAL should be the same.  Only thing that would change is seating depth.

 

I haven't fully analysed this, one of these days I want to check OAL immediately after seating i.e. before crimping to see if the change in OAL is present between the two cases.  Perhaps crimping is doing something when the case length changes.