Acquiring sick uncles guns.

[Big Mack 5]

To make a long story short my uncle has frontal temporal dementia and it is starting to get pretty bad. As much I has hate to ever try and restrict someone of there second amendment rights, my family and I think its in ours and everyone else's best interest and safety to remove his firearms from his home. Im the only member of my family that has an FID and safe means of keeping his arms. My question is what is the legality of this? I know he does have a few pistols but mainly shotguns and rifles since he was an avid hunter. I'm assuming the long arms won't be a problem but how would I go about a possible exemption of the P2P and one per 30 day law for the pistols. Anyone ever have to deal with this?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

You can apply for an OGAM Exemption - get the make, model and serial #'s of the pistols - you will have to submit it with the exemption.

[RichP 115]

Short answer. Start by removing all of his ammo.

 

I guess the question is; Is your uncle onboard with you (or anybody else) taking ownership of his guns?

 

If not, then I would imagine that you would have to get a power of attorney granted, better to consult a lawyer for this.

[Big Mack 5]

I looked that up but that particular form requires the seller/transferi to sign the form. There is no way he is going to do that willingly. He's at the stage that no matter what we do to try and help him ( get his bills paid, get him his SS, not blow his money on scams.) he gets upset and freaked out. Do you think I should just try and contact the NJSP and discribe the situation or try and get him to sign the OGAM?

[Big Mack 5]

Short answer. Start by removing all of his ammo.

 

I guess the question is; Is your uncle onboard with you (or anybody else) taking ownership of his guns?

 

If not, then I would imagine that you would have to get a power of attorney granted, better to consult a lawyer for this.

He has no idea. My entire family wants it done yesterday for his safety. Honestly I want to hold them seeing a lot of those guns I grew up shooting and belonged to my grand and great grandfather. So the main thing is obviously his, ours, and everyone else's safety but also some sentimental value. I'd hate to see them just get handed over.

[seamusSU 0]

First off, sorry to hear about your uncle heading down the dementia road. It's a terrible thing to have to witness.

 

On the actual matter at hand, if you can't get him to sign off on it, and can't get a power of attorney, would it be worth buying a gun cabinet/safe and moving everything into that within his home but you keep the key? That could act as a temporary side-step of the transfer paperwork, assuming you can access them to move them.

[RichP 115]

If he is unwilling to give them up, then I believe that getting power of attorney is your only option.

Do not call the SP, unless you have contacted a lawyer first.

Do not take the guns out of the house; without his permission, it can be considered firearm theft (goodbye FID).

Like I said, get all of the ammo out of his house and the idea of getting a safe for his home sounds good too.

 

I am not a lawyer.

[Big Mack 5]

First off, sorry to hear about your uncle heading down the dementia road. It's a terrible thing to have to witness.

 

On the actual matter at hand, if you can't get him to sign off on it, and can't get a power of attorney, would it be worth buying a gun cabinet/safe and moving everything into that within his home but you keep the key? That could act as a temporary side-step of the transfer paperwork, assuming you can access them to move them.

Thank you. It definitely does suck to see anyone go through that. So this is where the other curve ball comes in. He's married. His wife is from Indonesia. Lovely women, but between the language barrier and his sickness she doesn't really seem to have a clue. So considering the inevitable she would inherate his firearms which she would do God knows what with. My family doesn't know the full extent of the gun laws in NJ so its easy for them to get on me all the time to go and get his guns.

 

To make this more difficult. I think he has his firearms at his old house which my other uncle lives in ( they had shared the home for a few years). So if this is the case besides being very illegal it adds a whole other problem. Meaning I don't want to go over and take them, have him go over there one day, report them stolen, resulting in myself in possession of stolen firearms..

 

Regular Springer episode I know

[Big Mack 5]

Yea I think I might just get a safe for his place and lock them up. Might be my best bet for now.

[seamusSU 0]

Yea I think I might just get a safe for his place and lock them up. Might be my best bet for now.

That seems like the only way to alleviate everyone's concerns while staying legal

[Big Mack 5]

Yea I agree. My wife and I were just saying tomorrow we're going to go over take the Ammo, and fill out the OGAM form with all the pistol info and try and get him to sign it at some point soon. As sad as it is to say with his disease if we try and make it sound like it was all his great idea then He might be all about it. We'll see

[siderman 1,137]

Yea I agree. My wife and I were just saying tomorrow we're going to go over take the Ammo, and fill out the OGAM form with all the pistol info and try and get him to sign it at some point soon. As sad as it is to say with his disease if we try and make it sound like it was all his great idea then He might be all about it. We'll see

maybe bring over a bunch of COE forms for the long guns just in case the moment is favorable to have you acquire them.  good luck

[Big Mack 5]

maybe bring over a bunch of COE forms for the long guns just in case the moment is favorable to have you acquire them.  good luck

Good idea. Im just trying to figure out a way to get him on board with out trying to trick him. I just feel terrible even thinking about it but I just want him to be safe. Sucks big time.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Been there, done that. Remove the ammo, inventory the firearms and then secure them to the best of your ability. Perhaps disassembling key componets will add a layer? (Bolts out, cylinders, slides, etc.?) Perhaps some trigger locks to pile on to the safety / security.

[ogfarmer 138]

remove firing pins, etc...

[Big Mack 5]

Been there, done that. Remove the ammo, inventory the firearms and then secure them to the best of your ability. Perhaps disassembling key componets will add a layer? (Bolts out, cylinders, slides, etc.?) Perhaps some trigger locks to pile on to the safety / security.

remove firing pins, etc...

Good idea guys. I have so much on my mind that I didn't even think of that. I know he has a bunch of bolts so I'll take the bolt out of them, take out a few firing pins, and trigger lock the rest.

[Guest]

put them in a safe out of his reach

 

get a lawyer

 

get the details of his will worked out NOW, before its too late and his wife has control of the weapons. From what you say, she may turn them into the local PD and your family will suffer a great loss

 

One more idea is, if you know anyone (family or friend) living in a free state, they can take possession without all the BS

[siderman 1,137]

Good idea. Im just trying to figure out a way to get him on board with out trying to trick him. I just feel terrible even thinking about it but I just want him to be safe. Sucks big time.

try a tactful way of emphasizing the fact that some of (all?) the guns are family heirlooms and you (we/family) dont want them to end up in the police scrapyard because the wife- and no dis-respect to her- doesnt know what to do and throws up her hands in confusion and just defaults to the police out of fear of the unknown. It is the truth. But surely there needs to be some communication with the wife after all she is the legal heir otherwise and you dont want her to feel slighted and open up that can of worms. Get real legal advice too asap, not just forum talk. If you can, get a hold of the ANJRPC newsletter, it has a short list of 2A lawyers who may be able to help you the first phone call is free. I'd be happy to get to you the relevent info via PM. Again, good luck

 

EDIT: you actually need to be a ANJRPC member to get the free call but the lawyers are still there.... 

[Big Mack 5]

try a tactful way of emphasizing the fact that some of (all?) the guns are family heirlooms and you (we/family) dont want them to end up in the police scrapyard because the wife- and no dis-respect to her- doesnt know what to do and throws up her hands in confusion and just defaults to the police out of fear of the unknown. It is the truth. But surely there needs to be some communication with the wife after all she is the legal heir otherwise and you dont want her to feel slighted and open up that can of worms. Get real legal advice too asap, not just forum talk. If you can, get a hold of the ANJRPC newsletter, it has a short list of 2A lawyers who may be able to help you the first phone call is free. I'd be happy to get to you the relevent info via PM. Again, good luck

 

EDIT: you actually need to be a ANJRPC member to get the free call but the lawyers are still there....

 

That's exactly what would happen. I know for a fact she'd just give them in to the local pd. I agree that Im probably going to have to advise a 2a lawyer about the situation.

[Big Mack 5]

I was also talking to some family today about how it's not just a matter of "he's sick so just go and take them" so we were thinking of just trying to get him to sign the forms for now and if he refuses then we'll take further steps from there.

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

You can apply for an OGAM Exemption - get the make, model and serial #'s of the pistols - you will have to submit it with the exemption.

 

What if I have the same issue and my Uncle lives out of state? How do I get the pistols/rifles to NJ? Besides being NJ compliant (which I think they are).

[Big Mack 5]

What if I have the same issue and my Uncle lives out of state? How do I get the pistols/rifles to NJ? Besides being NJ compliant (which I think they are).

I think you would have to get the pistols transferred to an ffl dealer before you could take possession. I would assume the same paper work would be needed assuming all the firearms are nj legal. I could be completly wrong I'm just basing that off of buying a pistol out of state from an ffl.

[PD2K 115]

I was also talking to some family today about how it's not just a matter of "he's sick so just go and take them" so we were thinking of just trying to get him to sign the forms for now and if he refuses then we'll take further steps from there.

 

That's probably your best bet. Bring the forms/P2Ps and hopefully he will sign them. Otherwise you'll have to contact an attorney asap.

[kman 56]

If you can get him to sign a power of attorney over to you you, you can sign for him on the paperwork for transfer. That is easiest and he wouldnt even know.

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Eric. 9]

If I were in your situation, I would start by seeing if all the involved family members willingly agree with you holding the guns.  IF everyone agrees, then you can move the guns and sort out hte legal transfer issues later.  I know this sounds moronic, but have you had a sit down conversation with your aunt?  If she agrees, you may not need to file any trasnfer paperwork, for the moment, because you are "borrowing" them (with her consent).  Essentially, just storing them at your place.

 

Either way, this is way too sticky for the forum to help with.  You need to see an lawyer.

 

 

Eric

[Big Mack 5]

My whole family is on board. His wife is kind of clueless and overwhelmed so I haven't really tried to talk to her yet. So my first step is going to see If I can get him to sign the paper work. If he doesn't then my next step would be to make sure there secure (take ammo, firiing pins out, bolts out, trigger locks, etc). Then I would talk to his wife about her getting power of attorney and signing them over to me. If not that then I guess talk to a lawyer. I would really like to avoid a lawyer seeing my wife is 8 months pregnant and cash is a bit tight at the moment. so we shall see how this all plays out.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

IANAL, but I play one on TV:  If his wife is currently his power of attorney, in my opinion, she has the ability to transfer / sell them to you in accordance with state law.  Being designated his power of attorney at this time seems a bit of an overkill.  That will put you on the hook for the bigger picture, like making healthcare and financial decisions.

[Malsua 1,422]

If I were in your situation, I would start by seeing if all the involved family members willingly agree with you holding the guns.  IF everyone agrees, then you can move the guns and sort out hte legal transfer issues later.  I know this sounds moronic, but have you had a sit down conversation with your aunt?  If she agrees, you may not need to file any trasnfer paperwork, for the moment, because you are "borrowing" them (with her consent).  Essentially, just storing them at your place.

 

Either way, this is way too sticky for the forum to help with.  You need to see an lawyer.

 

 

Eric

 

There is no borrowing of firearms in NJ except for hunting by Juveniles.

[Eric. 9]

There is no borrowing of firearms in NJ except for hunting by Juveniles.

 This is incorrect.  Anyone that would not normally be disqualified for a FID card, adult or not, can legally borrow a firearm for, something like, 8 hours, within a 24 uour period.

 

Now, I'm no legal expert, which is why I mentioned the most important line that should have been highlighted:

 

"Either way, this is too sticky for the forum to help with.  You need to see a lawyer."

 

 

Eric

[Malsua 1,422]

 This is incorrect.  Anyone that would not normally be disqualified for a FID card, adult or not, can legally borrow a firearm for, something like, 8 hours, within a 24 uour period.

 

Now, I'm no legal expert, which is why I mentioned the most important line that should have been highlighted:

 

"Either way, this is too sticky for the forum to help with.  You need to see a lawyer."

 

 

Eric

 

There is no borrowing language in the firearms statutes.  There are transfers.  Temporary or Permanent. 

 

Temporary transfers can occur at a gun range as long as the owner is present.   They can occur at gun shop and for minors while hunting.  That's it.