J-Frame Ammo

[Junior 14]

I'm picking up a J-frame revolver and I'm between the M&P340 and the 642 Performance Center. 

 

Both are lightweight (13 vs 15oz) but the M&P can shoot .357. Now i don't plan on shooting .357's through it, but its nice to know that i could..

 

I'm going to buy a bunch of different ammo and see which i like better. I'm considering Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special +P 110 gr, but in your guys opinion which should i try first? This is going to be my out of state CCW/backup bedside gun.

 

Those of you who CCW out of state, what type of ammo do you bring with you?

[GRIZ 3,369]

I would reconsider my choice of firearm. I know Uber lightweight J frames are popular and very much in the vogue. However, if you look at steel j frames a few more ounces in weight gives you a lot more controllable and durable revolver. I'm amused at those who say "I don't even know it's there". Sorry, if I'm carrying a gun I want to know it's there.

 

I've used all types of ammo in j frames. Yes there are loads optimized to expand from short barrels. I'm more concerned with adequate penetration. I carry factory standard pressure lead semi wadcutters or target wadcutters. I haven't seen any ammo work better and a lot of ammo that's worked not so good.

 

I base my recommendations on over 40 years of carrying guns (often a j frame) on an everyday basis. I also have personal knowledge of more than a few gunfights some of which where someone was using a j frame.

[illy 1]

·Have you considered a Ruger LCR?

 

ETA: +1 on GRIZ's ammo recommendation.

[Junior 14]

I was considering the all steel model 640, but for pretty much the same money I would have a much lighter gun that could also fire .357 and the weight savings (13 oz vs 23 oz) would mean i wouldn’t mind carrying it more frequently. Like they say about cameras “ the best one is the one you have on you” not the one you left home because it was to heavy to carry around. I completely understand the argument about the extra weight being more controllable, but i figured for sure with the right ammo you’d have comparable control for follow-up shots. 10 oz is a lot. thats like walking around with 2 extra phones on you all day.

 

You brought up another good point about durability and thats something that was spotty while i was doing my research. Will firing hundreds of +P rounds through an airweight revolver eventually loosen up the gun? My plan once i get it is to practice practice practice. Mostly with the ammo I'm going to be carrying in it. I don't want to have to repeatedly send it back to S&W to tighten things up.

 

Ive also considered the LCR but I liked the trigger on the S&W’s better. Weight isn’t much different then where I’m at with the S&W’s either.

 

 

I would reconsider my choice of firearm. I know Uber lightweight J frames are popular and very much in the vogue. However, if you look at steel j frames a few more ounces in weight gives you a lot more controllable and durable revolver. I'm amused at those who say "I don't even know it's there". Sorry, if I'm carrying a gun I want to know it's there.

I've used all types of ammo in j frames. Yes there are loads optimized to expand from short barrels. I'm more concerned with adequate penetration. I carry factory standard pressure lead semi wadcutters or target wadcutters. I haven't seen any ammo work better and a lot of ammo that's worked not so good.

I base my recommendations on over 40 years of carrying guns (often a j frame) on an everyday basis. I also have personal knowledge of more than a few gunfights some of which where someone was using a j frame.

 

 

Which Lead Semi Wadcutters do you use? HP or Flat nose?

[Old School 611]

 

Last time I carried a J frame was many moons ago and it was a model 36. In modern times I've gone to a subcompact 9mm.

 

But on topic, I carried 148gr SWC Standard loading NOT +P. Nice heavy and appeared to penetrate well.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I was considering the all steel model 640, but for pretty much the same money I would have a much lighter gun that could also fire .357 and the weight savings (13 oz vs 23 oz) would mean i wouldn’t mind carrying it more frequently. Like they say about cameras “ the best one is the one you have on you” not the one you left home because it was to heavy to carry around. I completely understand the argument about the extra weight being more controllable, but i figured for sure with the right ammo you’d have comparable control for follow-up shots. 10 oz is a lot. thats like walking around with 2 extra phones on you all day.

 

You brought up another good point about durability and thats something that was spotty while i was doing my research. Will firing hundreds of +P rounds through an airweight revolver eventually loosen up the gun? My plan once i get it is to practice practice practice. Mostly with the ammo I'm going to be carrying in it. I don't want to have to repeatedly send it back to S&W to tighten things up.

 

Ive also considered the LCR but I liked the trigger on the S&W’s better. Weight isn’t much different then where I’m at with the S&W’s either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Which Lead Semi Wadcutters do you use? HP or Flat nose?

If shooting 357s through a j frame is your idea of fun a 640 makes a lot more sense. I carried a 640 and could max the qualification score with 357s but I didnt want to shoot another round after that. Too heavy? I dont think so and Ive carried those j frames every way possible. I can't understand why all these gunfighting he men see carrying an extra 7-10 ounces as a burden.

 

HP swcs are fine but hard to find in std pressure. I use the plain flat tip swcs or factory target wadcutters.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

If you want to waste $250 - $300 go ahead and buy a scandium/titanium .357 J-frame - chances are that you will only shoot it once or twice with full-house loads. Save the money, buy a .38 Spl Airweight (they have the SS cylinder and weigh 4 oz more) and use the balance of the money for ammo to practice with, because even .38 Spl is a handful in an Airweight.

 

With my 638 I practice with standard .38 Spl - nominally 130 gr FMJ's, but when I carried it, it was stoked with Speer Gold Dot, Short Barrel 135 gr JHP +P's - manageable but not fun. Unless you're JM, the bad guy will plug you three times before you can recover from the recoil of your first shot using magnums.

 

I know someone - not naming names - that bought an all-steel, 3" barrelled model 60 and shot a full box of magnums through it and came away bloody.

 

Do what you will, but I'd wager that you have probably 80 years of shooting experience, between GRIZ and I, advising you to do otherwise.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Junior 14]

So while i wasnt planning on shooting .357 Magnum in the J Frame, It's nice to know i could. I was however planning on practicing with +P's. 

 

Long term I wanted to know how the standard airweight would hold up. I'm not talking about 200 rounds every week, but ending a range session with a box of +P ammo as often as i go (every other week) would mean at least a couple hundred rounds in less then a year.  I have read about the airweight j frames developing timing and other issues over time and my thought was the M&P340 would hold up better. I also like the front sight on the M&P 340 over the standard j frame sight. 

 

Just so were on the same page Pizza Bob, the M&P340 is 13oz and comes with a SS cylinder. The 340PD is the Titanium cylinder one and weigns in at 11oz. Either way i really have no plans on running 357 through it. I absolutely agree... Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

The only gun i really have no interest in is the full steel J frames. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

The only gun i really have no interest in is the full steel J frames.

 

I think you should reconsider if you intend to use the j frame as a SD weapon. It will take you a lot of rounds to shoot an alloy j frame loose but when you do a steel frame with the same number of rounds will have a lot of life left in it. I've shot one of those 11 oz guns and with the std grips the recoil is painful with 148 gr target wadcutters. Thats about as soft as you can get over the counter. It still has adequate penetration for a SD round. I can shoot a 640 with the same ammo all day long. Simple math will tell you the in the 640 (or a SP101) the recoil is less than half of that 11 oz wonder.

 

You give up a lot in control going to an 11 or 13 oz gun. Even shooting 38s. Feeling that steel frame gun on your hip, ankle, or in your pocket lets you know it's there.

 

I've only been carrying a gun on a daily basis for over 40 years and been an instructor for nearly all that time. I must have learned something in that time.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Is "knowing you could" worth the extra $250 - $300 it would cost you? If that's the case, have at it.

 

As far as Aluminum v. Scandium - the difference is so slight as to be negligible -  great marketing though. I don't think I've ever seen anybody wear-out an alloy J-frame. Usually before that happens, the shooter comes to their senses and decides to stop punishing themselves.

 

Alloy J-frames are the epitome of "carry a lot, shoot a little". I understand the desire to be familiar with the weapon that you may stake your life on, but to me, I shoot the J-frame enough to know what to expect - but then put thousands of rounds down range each year with platforms with the same manual of arms, i.e. Revolvers.

 

If you are intent on shooting this particular gun as much as you say you are - then I have to agree with GRIZ - consider an all-steel J-frame. Not because of the wear & tear on the gun, but because of the wear and tear on you.

 

Not sure that we've swayed you. People only tend to learn when the mistakes they make are their own. Just trying to save you some heartache and money.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Junior 14]

I appreciate the info either way guys. I have a about a month to really decide which way to go. Its all good stuff to consider. 

 

I ordered a few boxes of ammo to have on hand that you guys recommended and had decent reviews off midway. Some Semi Wadcutters, Some JHP and some critical defense in both standard pressure and +P for when I do decide. They were all out of the Gold Dots though. 

 

For now i'm going to shoot the hell out of my new 686!