What does NJ consider your home/property

[glockamole 0]

Every Unicorn comes standard with a NJ carry permit.

[mipafox 438]

I don't not believe you are permitted to possess a handgun while going between properties or residences you own unless you are moving. I don't think you can take handguns back and forth from your new house.

 

I think you would have to go to a range between the destinations on each trip.

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions.

 

..................................................

 

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

(b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

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[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

In NJ anyplace you sleep at for more than 30 days is officially your home on day 31. Don't believe me look it up. Better yet try throwing a girlfriend out of your house that you own! that's been there more than 30 days. You actually have to have the bitch legally evicted, with a written letter giving 30 days notice to move out. I'm not joking about this I went through it in my 20's.

thank god the one before the wife was as dumb as she was! i would have been screwed

[mipafox 438]

In NJ anyplace you sleep at for more than 30 days is officially your home on day 31. Don't believe me look it up. Better yet try throwing a girlfriend out of your house that you own! that's been there more than 30 days. You actually have to have the bitch legally evicted, with a written letter giving 30 days notice to move out. I'm not joking about this I went through it in my 20's.

Show me one single place where that definition is in the NJ crimes code.

 

There are several definitions, in different chapters, and that aint one of them.

 

Did you find that in the Shorties Code?

[Eric. 9]

Show me one single place where that definition is in the NJ crimes code.

 

There are several definitions, in different chapters, and that aint one of them.

 

Did you find that in the Shorties Code?

I don't know the statute verbatim, but in layman terms the issue is when someone "establishes residency". I know that the bar for establishing residency isn't that high too.  

 

 

Eric

[High Exposure 5,664]

I'm not sure about civil law, but from a criminal standpoint, if someone is getting their mail at an address and has belongings established in a residence in such a way as to indicate that they live there: clothes in a closet, their own dresser full stuff, 2 towels in the bathroom and their own toiletries strewn about, photos on the wall, etc.... I can't make them leave without arresting them.

[Howard 538]

In NJ anyplace you sleep at for more than 30 days is officially your home on day 31. Don't believe me look it up. Better yet try throwing a girlfriend out of your house that you own! that's been there more than 30 days. You actually have to have the bitch legally evicted, with a written letter giving 30 days notice to move out. I'm not joking about this I went through it in my 20's.

While the above might be true for certain things it is not that limited.  For instance if you move into a new home (or apartment) and it is your only domicile it is your home immediately - unless you are saying the state has determined by law that you are officially homeless for the next 30 days.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I don't not believe you are permitted to possess a handgun while going between properties or residences you own unless you are moving. I don't think you can take handguns back and forth from your new house.

 

I think you would have to go to a range between the destinations on each trip.

 

2C:39-6. Exemptions.

 

 

e. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent a person keeping or carrying about his place of business, residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, any firearm, or from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section, from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, between one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair. For the purposes of this section, a place of business shall be deemed to be a fixed location.

 

f. Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

 

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

 

(2) A person carrying a firearm or knife in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice or fishing, provided that the firearm or knife is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and he has in his possession a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license;

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

 

(a) Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided the person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license; or

 

(b) Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

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Fox, I believe there's a HUGE gap in meaning here.  I also believe these old laws were written and created by rich land owners that didn't wish to disarm themselves or their own families and interests.  Here's the way it's written, as I interpret it:

 

If I own a vacant lot with a chain-link fence and a pad lock or a lot with a garage for rent on it, or a parcel in the woods off the beaten path, as a land owner I'm entitled to patrol it with my hand gun.  If it's a vacant lot or a piece of undeveloped woods it's covered by "OTHER LAND OWNED OR POSSESSED BY HIM", so how does the hand gun get there if I don't bring it to my land parcel unloaded, in the trunk of my car?

 

Keep in mind the actual King's English and the punctuation, as well as the word OR.  It's the same word "OR" that's used as in "OR in a securely tied package", as in brown craft paper and bakery string.  It's a VERY important "OR", the same "OR" that lets me toss a 12 ga. into my sedan's trunk w/o a case, trigger lock or any other encumbrance so long as it's UNLOADED.....

[mipafox 438]

 

Fox, I believe there's a HUGE gap in meaning here.  I also believe these old laws were written and created by rich land owners that didn't wish to disarm themselves or their own families and interests.  Here's the way it's written, as I interpret it:

 

If I own a vacant lot with a chain-link fence and a pad lock or a lot with a garage for rent on it, or a parcel in the woods off the beaten path, as a land owner I'm entitled to patrol it with my hand gun.  If it's a vacant lot or a piece of undeveloped woods it's covered by "OTHER LAND OWNED OR POSSESSED BY HIM", so how does the hand gun get there if I don't bring it to my land parcel unloaded, in the trunk of my car?

 

From place of purchase.

 

Then you have to keep if there. Except that you can take it to the range, place of repair, hunting (not applicable), or a business you own.

 

You buy a gun and take it there and keep it there.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

OK, not to be a ball-buster, but on it's face, do you think that the Rich who wrote the law meant for it to be interpreted that they could only arm themselves to check on the condition of a dark, vacant lot with a gas station for rent on said property AFTER they first purchase a brand-new firearm at point-of-sale?  And then drove directly from the Gun Store to the "OTHER property owned or possessed by him"?  Where does the "common interpretation" you just wrote above (and we ALL used to adhere to as if it were Gospel) fit-in as far as "land" is concerned?  It doesn't even say a structure has to be on said land.  Am I therefore to presume that I have to leave a gun safe somewhere on vacant land owned by me in order to avail myself of my right to self-protection?  See what I mean?  Draw a common-sense conclusion by thinking outside of the box, and try to interpret it as you never have previously.  Now how do you get your gun there, to your LAND w/o a building on it?  Also note the statute says "firearm" NOT long gun, so therefore I can interpret that I needn't pull my unloaded 12 ga. outta my sedans' trunk in order to then load it as I patrol my vacant LAND.....

 

Like I said, it's NOT AT ALL what we're all used to thinking.  But it's THERE just the same!  Is it cutting a fine hair?  Yes, I think so.  But if it was written so as to enable land owners to protect themselves, then who am I to argue with the law??  And FWIW, what if I owned more than a single parcel or a single cash business that had drop-boxes?  What's stopping me from transporting my unloaded hand gun and upon arrival, loading and holstering-up at at Store #1, then unloading and storing prior to driving my big-ass Caddy to every Pizza Joint I own and making collections while traveling DIRECTLY to each one from the other, with each one being a four-walled, fixed location (not a Sabret Cart on Main Street)?

 

I'm not asking everyone to completely agree with me.  I'm just asking for folks to dissect the law as written and then see if they can interpret it the same way I do because my interpretation does make sense.  "Other LAND owned or possessed"..........

[mipafox 438]

Not liking what it says does not change what it says.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Well, I guess I've uncovered a MYSTERY in the NJ Firearms Statutes.  Unless I can get a Star Ship to beam-down me a hand gun (since the Statute doesn't specify long gun), how can I use one on "Other Land owned or possessed"??  Not trying to be a PITA here, and it's OK that we disagree on the interpretation.

 

I think my case is still solid, based upon both punctuation and common text reading of the Statute.  "OR from carrying the same, in the manner specified in subsection g, blah, blah, blah".  That little "OR" in that line of text translates into "in addition to" and then goes on to name what all we're collectively used to hearing in our heads until the cows come home.  It's the same "OR" as in "OR locked in the trunk of an automobile is considered secure".  As in an uncased firearm (long gun or hand gun) is secured if it's locked in a cars' trunk.  Yes it's legalese, and yes it's a fine hair of distinction, but i still think I'm on to something.  

 

I would love for some others (the Lurkers, the LEO's, English Majors, et-al), to chime-in with their interpretation(s) of this mystery of how to get a hand gun to "Other Land owned or possessed" (since long gun is NOT specified), as well as the significance of the punctuation as it applies to this statute.

[mipafox 438]

Well, I guess I've uncovered a MYSTERY in the NJ Firearms Statutes.  Unless I can get a Star Ship to beam-down me a hand gun (since the Statute doesn't specify long gun), how can I use one on "Other Land owned or possessed"??  Not trying to be a PITA here, and it's OK that we disagree on the interpretation.

 

There is no interpretation to disagree upon.

 

And you are making straw man arguments. There's no mystery or space ships. You are being silly and not sincere. It's very simple. You buy the gun and you take it there. You are LUCKY they let you take it to the range, place of repair, and back and forth to your business.

 

They don't want you to have a gun on property you don't own. In your example, they certainly are not going to let you drive all over the state with a handgun because you have 10 properties and could be coming or going to any one of them. You are LUCKY they didn't limit it to a primary residence.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

There is no interpretation to disagree upon.

So we interpret it the same then?  Or are you saying that the text "other land owned or possessed" is irrelevant, OR that the punctuation/wording doesn't matter?  Not quite sure I follow.

[Howard 538]

I believe Dave is correct.  It takes about moving, it does not say anything about a permanent move like selling a home and buying another gone.  When you go from one home to another (or a third) you are moving, albeit temporarily.  The issue is that you still must follow transport laws which means you must take the shortest (Time? Miles? who knows) route with no unreasonable deviation.  Unreasonable, we all know, means what a judge decides when your hearing comes up

[PK90 3,570]

This issue is not unlike the following scenario:

A LEO finds a car on the side of the road, and the owner is standing outside of it. He has a suspended DL and claims that he didn't drive it there. Is he guilty of NJS 39:3-40?

[mipafox 438]

I believe Dave is correct. It takes about moving, it does not say anything about a permanent move like selling a home and buying another gone. When you go from one home to another (or a third) you are moving, albeit temporarily.

Ask Brian Aitken about that.

 

That's nonsense. That's not what "while moving" means in any American English sentence.

 

Are you allowed to take the gun back and forth to the range while moving? Oh, it didn't say that. It said between. Same with repair. Same with your business. It didn't say "between" about properties or residences you own. It's as clear as glass.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I'm being VERY sincere.  Words mean things.  And so does punctuation.  Some of NJ law goes back to the pre Rev War days, or was at the very least based upon the fact that Land Owners had MORE RIGHTS than mere peasants.  In common terms, the RICH!  I know what we all were trained to think about the famous "directly to and from" rules.  I'm merely choosing to read it as plain text from the beginning of the written statute instead of starting where we all usually do.  NO, I'm not trying to tilt at windmills.  I'm merely pointing-out an explanation of WHY the words are there to begin with.  Please note (as we all know) that nowhere in the statute does it say PRIMARY residence, VOTING residence, or any such thing.  In fact in my interpretation, this statute goes out of its' way to enable those firearms owners to protect themselves and THEIR PROPERTIES with several choices.  "Keeping, carrying about, premises, place of business, residence, other land or property owned or possessed by him ANY FIREARM (means hand guns are okey-dokey)".

 

I know all about Aitken, his case, even read his book.  He was initially represented by a Clown (I could have done a better job as my own attorney), and the Judge was prejudiced and should have been disbarred (oh wait, he resigned or was fired!) for not properly entertaining the very exemptions of which we speak and NOT properly charging the Jurors.  All that remains is the HP conviction because there is NOT a clear exemption to move with them unless you stop at a range in the middle of the move.  So by my interpretation, said commercial range needn't actually be open for business, and he could have just stopped in my (private) range's parking lot and snapped a photo with his phone and he wouldn't have been convicted of THAT one, right?

 

If I own a few retail chain food joints, what's to stop me from collecting my daily receipts with an unloaded hand gun in the trunk of the car next to the cash box?  Doesn't say PRIMARY place of business in that statute either, does it?

 

I think the clear glass just turned a little muddy myself.....