Because you suck. And we trace you.

[illy 1]

Effin GLOCK.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/robert-farago/glock-demanding-customer-info-from-gun-dealers/

 

Trop Gun Shop regrets to inform our customers that we will no longer be participating in the Glock Blue Label program. Effective immediately, Glock terminated us from the program for refusing to furnish access to our customers’ private information for the purposes of auditing by Glock employees. While it is regrettable that we will no longer be able to offer the benefits of the Blue Label program here at Trop, we absolutely refuse to compromise the sensitive information of our customers by furnishing it to anyone without proper authority through standard legal practices.

 

To participate in the Glock Blue Label program a dealer must allow Glock access to audit “qualifying credentials” of its Blue Label customers. Typically these credentials are a form of identification verifying the individual is a member of one of the groups listed in the Blue Label program.

 

Recently a representative of Glock entered our establishment and demanded access to view our records related to all Blue Label sales, specifically our ATF Form 4473s, which contain very detailed, personal and identifying information of our customers. We refused the Glock representative access to this information.

 

During repeated correspondence Glock continued to demand access to the 4473s or we would be terminated from the Blue Label program. We attempted to reconcile the situation while maintaining our customers’ privacy and made every effort to comply with reasonable requests to audit the Blue Label sales to maintain the integrity of the program. However, Glock insisted that access to the 4473s and only access to the 4473s would be a sufficient level of compliance.

 

Our position was, and continues to be, that we will not surrender to Glock our Form 4473s and our customers’ identifying information under any circumstance. It is an untenable breach of our customers’ privacy and Trop Gun Shop will not submit to this unreasonable demand. As a result of our position, Glock immediately terminated our status as an authorized participant of the Blue Label program. Furthermore, Glock advised us that if we ever applied in the future, that request would be denied. While we are displeased that we can no longer support our qualifying customers through the Blue Label program, Trop Gun Shop remains committed to the security and privacy of all of our customers, and continues to offer its Law Enforcement / Military discount to those who qualify.

 

Regards,

Trop Gun Shop

[Vlad G 345]

Well .. that could be half the story.

 

On one hand lots of police thing they have special rights so why not special procedures for verifying their benefits are correctly applied?

 

On another hand, Trop knew what the terms were when they signed up for the program and still signed on, they just decided they didn't like the terms when Glock exercised them.

 

On the third hand, Gun shops have been abusing Blue Label guns for a long time, trying to under-sell each other by selling blue label guns on the open market. Lets not assume Trop wasn't doing that and trying to hide it

 

On the fourth hand Glock are asses.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Unless the customer agreed to the disclosure as a condition of purchase, this gun shop did the right thing.

[AverageJoe 95]

Well .. that could be half the story.

 

On one hand lots of police thing they have special rights so why not special procedures for verifying their benefits are correctly applied?

 

On another hand, Trop knew what the terms were when they signed up for the program and still signed on, they just decided they didn't like the terms when Glock exercised them.

 

On the third hand, Gun shops have been abusing Blue Label guns for a long time, trying to under-sell each other by selling blue label guns on the open market. Lets not assume Trop wasn't doing that and trying to hide it

 

On the fourth hand Glock are asses.

And a 5th hand to...never mind.

[Vlad G 345]

Unless the customer agreed to the disclosure as a condition of purchase, this gun shop did the right thing.

 

That might be a condition of purchasing a discounted blue label Glock. You can choose to get $100 off but allow access to verify the purchase, or pay $100 more and keep your privacy, such as it is.

[mipafox 438]

Is it possible Trop believes Form 4473s are confidential and not to be shared regardless of what the customer says?

[Vlad G 345]

Maybe, but if they signed a contract with Glock saying otherwise as a condition of selling blue label guns, then they would be in breach of their agreement.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

are any of our member ffl's blue label dealers? does it say glock can come in and ask for that info?

 

 

 why would they target just this ffl? could it be that he was selling a significantly higher percentage of blue label guns? possibly abusing the crap outta the program? seems odd.

 does his refusal to supply them to glock mean that he'll refuse to let the batf see anything they wish?(rhetorical question here)

[mipafox 438]

Maybe, but if they signed a contract with Glock saying otherwise as a condition of selling blue label guns, then they would be in breach of their agreement.

From the article, it sounds like that is not the case. They were supposed to allow Glock to audit credentials of eligibility. No such information will be found on a 4473. And the request for 4473s was unprecedented. That is the impression I got from their statement and I have no reason to believe differently at this time.

[jackandjill 683]

To validate the program, isnt it enough for Glock to just collect the coupons provides by Customer instead of going through full 4473 ? Am I missing something here?

[n4p226r 105]

From the article, it sounds like that is not the case. They were supposed to allow Glock to audit credentials of eligibility. No such information will be found on a 4473. And the request for 4473s was unprecedented. That is the impression I got from their statement and I have no reason to believe differently at this time.

 

wouldn't the only way to verify be to compare the 4473 with the credentials given.  If not, what stops gun store X from writing officer Y's name down but really selling to officer Y's brother.

[n4p226r 105]

To validate the program, isnt it enough for Glock to just collect the coupons provides by Customer instead of going through full 4473 ? Am I missing something here?

are coupons only for GSSF members or all blue label purchases?

[Old School 611]

I've bought numerous blue label guns as well as 4473's. What is the super private info that people are afraid of having disclosed?

 

In reality we have no privacy today.

 

 

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[mipafox 438]

wouldn't the only way to verify be to compare the 4473 with the credentials given.  If not, what stops gun store X from writing officer Y's name down but really selling to officer Y's brother.

The speculation I was responding to was that the Blue Label contract with Glock required access to 4473s. I see no such information.

 

I've bought numerous blue label guns as well as 4473's. What is the super private info that people are afraid of having disclosed?

 

In reality we have no privacy today.

You can give up, it doesn't surprise me. I'll fight.

 

4473s are treated under law as tax records, similar to NFA Forms 1, 4, etc. Government employees go to PMITA prison for sharing information on them or for demanding access to them without proper authority. Generally, people expect that dealers will have the common decency to keep them confidential as well.

[Underdog 1,593]

This is just another reason why M&Ps are better.  If Glock wants that info, let them offer you a free mag or something and the consumer can follow-up with Glock on his or her own.  If it is disclosed to the consumer at the time of purchase, then the dealer shouldn't have an issue with it.  I think it is more common for the LEO to be the middle man on the discounted Glocks than the dealer doing it outright. 

[n4p226r 105]

The speculation I was responding to was that the Blue Label contract with Glock required access to 4473s. I see no such information.

 

 

You can give up, it doesn't surprise me. I'll fight.

 

4473s are treated under law as tax records, similar to NFA Forms 1, 4, etc. Government employees go to PMITA prison for sharing information on them or for demanding access to them without proper authority. Generally, people expect that dealers will have the common decency to keep them confidential as well.

 

 

the blue label program for gssf members states on the coupon for the dealer to staple the coupon to the 4473.  I'm not sure what the process is for the real blue label members like police.  I was not there so i don't know what the situation was really like.  but from glock's point of view, the only way they can verify compliance is by comparing credentials and coupons to the 4473.  ignoring any federal or state laws forbidding it like you stated them being considered tax records, there really isn't any other way for glock to confirm compliance.  

 

the only thing wrong on glocks part is they need to make it much more clear for those purchasing blue label guns what information they are agreeing to give up for participation in the program.  it's not like they are forcing you into giving up your 4473.  you can always pay full price or buy used like everyone else in the country.  

[Howard 538]

I don't see this as an issue.  This is a special program and with any special program comes restrictions.  If the gun store does not like it they should not participate.  If the customer does not like it they should not participate.

[mipafox 438]

This is just another reason why M&Ps are better.

Does S&W put the Andrew Cuomo locks on those?

[WP22 1,558]

I don't see this as an issue.  This is a special program and with any special program comes restrictions.  If the gun store does not like it they should not participate.  If the customer does not like it they should not participate.

 

Sure. But did the costumer know the terms of the contract between glock and store before purchase?

 

If he didn't, how could he have made the  informed decision of not participating in the program?

[Old School 611]

The speculation I was responding to was that the Blue Label contract with Glock required access to 4473s. I see no such information.

 

 

You can give up, it doesn't surprise me. I'll fight.

 

4473s are treated under law as tax records, similar to NFA Forms 1, 4, etc. Government employees go to PMITA prison for sharing information on them or for demanding access to them without proper authority. Generally, people expect that dealers will have the common decency to keep them confidential as well.

Respectfully if you think you are maintaining your privacy. You are deluding yourself.

 

 

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[tuktuk 16]

Respectfully if you think you are maintaining your privacy. You are deluding yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm with Old School on this one ... privacy is a very hypothetical thing nowadays. something for academia to theories about

[Old School 611]

I'm with Old School on this one ... privacy is a very hypothetical thing nowadays. something for academia to theories about

Plus one for me. Lol

Very seldom am I agreed with.

 

 

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[n4p226r 105]

Sure. But did the costumer know the terms of the contract between glock and store before purchase?

 

If he didn't, how could he have made the  informed decision of not participating in the program?

 

this is the letter that comes with the gssf coupon

http://www.gssfonline.com/GSSF_Pistol_Purchase_Program_Information.pdf

 

as you can see, it is clearly marked and bolded that the dealer needs to attach the coupon to the 4473.  I'm not aware of the process for the non-gssf member purchases though

[mipafox 438]

It's NOT in the contract that Glock gets to review 4473. Go ask any Glock dealer (outside of NJ).

 

A 4473 is NOT required to audit compliance with the program. If NJ sued them for Use Tax records they would not ask for or need 4473s to do it, sale records would be fine.

 

You guys are just reaching for wildly speculative reasons to either hate on Trop or cuddle with Glock.

 

Further, since some of you guys seem to like Prince Law for whatever reason, Joshua Prince:

 

"Actually, Glock is requesting that Trop violate Pennsylvania law. 18 Pa.C.S. 6111(i) provides "(i) Confidentiality.--All information provided by the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant, including, but not limited to, the potential purchaser, transferee or applicant's name or identity, furnished by a potential purchaser or transferee under this section or any applicant for a license to carry a firearm as provided by section 6109 shall be confidential and not subject to public disclosure. In addition to any other sanction or penalty imposed by this chapter, any person, licensed dealer, State or local governmental agency or department that violates this subsection shall be liable in civil damages in the amount of $1,000 per occurrence or three times the actual damages incurred as a result of the violation, whichever is greater, as well as reasonable attorney fees." There is also a question of whether Section 6119 would apply for a violation of 6111(i)."

 

Buzz off, Jersey. Go ban some mags or something.

[Vlad G 345]

Hey Mipa? Don't you have a PA gun forum you can troll?

 

Oh wait .. I'm supposed to take a face value whatever random gun shop in PA posts on facebook because no one ever lies on the internet.

[mipafox 438]

Respectfully if you think you are maintaining your privacy. You are deluding yourself.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm with Old School on this one ... privacy is a very hypothetical thing nowadays. something for academia to theories about

Good. I'm going to canvass NJ legislators to make the NJ firearms registry available publicly. So the Star Ledger can put it on a map like they did in NY, but not just licensees, all the guns you own.

 

I start Monday and I will keep you updated. Will you support me? It's the same as sending the stuff to Glock, and we have no privacy, right?

 

Thread link follows, give it some thought, and let's work together:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/76407-call-to-action-make-all-nj-firearms-ownership-and-carry-licenses-public-records/

[mipafox 438]

Hey Mipa? Don't you have a PA gun forum you can troll?

 

Oh wait .. I'm supposed to take a face value whatever random gun shop in PA posts on facebook because no one ever lies on the internet.

What facebook post? I never saw anything on facebook.

 

I'm confident you can't refute anything I posted. Is information bad?

[Vlad G 345]

I have no idea, but as I said from my first post right now we have heard HALF the story from the gun store side.  I can see Glock being douches and I can see a store making crap up.

 

Frankly I can't be bothered to care which one it is, as I'm pretty sure Glock have always skirted with douchiness and realistically 4473's are meaningless in this day an age. I got bigger things to worry about.

 

However your general attitude continues to justify the reason I've actually blocked you months ago and only rarely bother to read your posts in the hope you have something useful to say. Back to ignoring you now.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Good. I'm going to canvass NJ legislators to make the NJ firearms registry available publicly. So the Star Ledger can put it on a map like they did in NY, but not just licensees, all the guns you own.

 

I start Monday and I will keep you updated. Will you support me? It's the same as sending the stuff to Glock, and we have no privacy, right?

 

Thread link follows, give it some thought, and let's work together:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/76407-call-to-action-make-all-nj-firearms-ownership-and-carry-licenses-public-records/

hey!! keep my name outta that shit. mom's coming up, and she'll be with me for the whole summer, and probably till at least christmas. i don't want anyone trying to fuck with my house with her here.......

[mipafox 438]

hey!! keep my name outta that shit. mom's coming up, and she'll be with me for the whole summer, and probably till at least christmas. i don't want anyone trying to fuck with my house with her here.......

I hope you are joking. According to this forum there are 1 million gun owners in NJ. Nobody cares what guns you have and nobody is going to bother your mother.

 

It's also certainly not going to happen tomorrow. Get in here and help:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/76407-call-to-action-make-all-nj-firearms-ownership-and-carry-licenses-public-records/