Closing a Dangerous Loophole in Our Gun Laws‏ email

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Did anyone else receive this? I recently received this from Ass. Greenwald. What a crock.

 

"

Dear Neighbor:

This time of the year marks eight years since the horrific tragedy of the mass shooting at Virginia Tech. On that day in 2007, a shooter murdered 32 people and wounded 17 other individuals in one of the deadliest shootings ever to take place in our country's history. Equally tragic is that this shooting might have been prevented, but a legal loophole permitted the shooter to purchase these firearms.

 

Two years before the shooting, the shooter was declared mentally ill and ordered by a Virginia judge to undergo psychiatric examination. Despite being considered a danger to himself and to others, the state of Virginia did not report this court record to the FBI's National Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is the federal background check all firearms purchasers must pass. Because the information was not reported, he was later able to pass a background check and purchase weapons and carry out horrific acts of violence.

 

We've taken action to close this dangerous loophole in the law--requiring court records of critical mental health adjudications to be submitted to the NICS background check system. Like Virginia and many other states, New Jersey did not always require these kinds of mental health court records to be reported to the federal background check system. Because of legislation we sponsored, this potentially deadly loophole in our laws has been closed. While no single law can fix all of our state's problems with gun violence, it's our hope that this law will help keep firearms out of the hands of the dangerously mentally ill.

 

We all know that better background checks are a key component of reducing gun violence and keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals. But, as the Virginia Tech shooting demonstrated all too tragically, we also know that any background check is only as good as the information it contains. That's why we sponsored this law and why we will continue to work toward comprehensive gun violence prevention to protect our communities.

 

Sincerely,

Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald &

Assemblywoman Pamela Lampitt"

 

 

S.

 

[AVB-AMG 530]

I do not have any problem with this....

 

If someone has been diagnosed by a medical doctor to be mentally ill then I think that information should be reported to the NICS.

Do you really want a mentally ill person to be able to purchase a firearm?
Of course, it is possible that the same person may have already purchased a firearm before they were declaired mentally ill, but that is just one hypothetical situation.

 

AVB-AMG

[1LtCAP 4,262]

the problem comes with who gets to say who is mentally ill? who gets to set and/or change the standard/definition?

[intercooler 41]

we already have laws in place for this... 

[revenger 473]

1ltCAP has it correct,  however well intentioned a law the question is who will decide (doctor, police, judge, kids school teacher???)  and when will the bar be raised or lowered and what recourse would a person have if they find themselves on this list.   I have learned from being a NJ gun owner not to have ANYTHING negative on any record that identifies me, for example I wear eyeglasses but make sure it does not show up on my drivers license. I'm not paranoid or anything I just know that someday somewhere somehow the politicians will use it against me in this police state.  Also if us NJ gun owners (US citizens) did have our constitutional rights now I might somewhat agree to something like this in an extremely limited circumstances if the law was written by pro 2a organizations but for now "shall not be infringed" means just what it says. 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

you smoked pot in highschool?

you drank in highschool?

you got into fights? you got suspended? you got divorced? you boned a dude in college? you wore a dress? you hate people that boned a dude, or wore a dress? you like women in leather?

 

 there are people that view all of those things as a form of mental illness. think about that.

[siderman 1,137]

the problem comes with who gets to say who is mentally ill? who gets to set and/or change the standard/definition?

They're working on it....

 

Bill: A3667 Sponsors: Cryan (D20); O'Donnell (D31); Quijano (D20) Summary: Requires mental health screening by licensed professional to purchase a firearm. Subjects: Human Services-Mental Health; Public Safety-Weapons Progress: 1st House: Referred to Committee Status: 01/14/2013 – Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee History: 01/14/2013—Introduced and referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

[Michael2013 56]

They're working on it....

Don't we already submit the form for that when applying for FID/P2P?

[1LtCAP 4,262]

They're working on it....

 

Bill: A3667 Sponsors: Cryan (D20); O'Donnell (D31); Quijano (D20) Summary: Requires mental health screening by licensed professional to purchase a firearm. Subjects: Human Services-Mental Health; Public Safety-Weapons Progress: 1st House: Referred to Committee Status: 01/14/2013 – Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee History: 01/14/2013—Introduced and referred to Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee

so they set the standard, and they get to pick who you'd have to see to be certified. i don't see any problem with that. (sarcasm)

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Don't we already submit the form for that when applying for FID/P2P?

that's for them to check our past mental health history.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

i've said it before, and i'll say it again. if you trust someone to walk amongst those you care about, and you...then you should be able to trust them with a firearm. if you can't/don't trust them to walk amongst those you care about....then they should never have been let out of prison.

[siderman 1,137]

Don't we already submit the form for that when applying for FID/P2P?

 

 

no, what they have in mind is a f2f interview(interogation) with a "health professional"-or 2 or 3- who will be sure to err heavily on their side of caution about your stability because its their ass on the line if you step too far into the Dark Side. Walk in with a beard, sunglasses and tats, too scary. Come wearing a suit and tie, too conservative must be hiding something.Too much coffee will mean you are too nervous and agitated.......

[DeerSlayer 241]

Well I guess if your mentally ill and want a firearm you could just bypass the entire legal system and head to a street corner in Newark for your guns. That's how their felonious constituents aquire guns now. Isn't it? Wouldn't it make a little more sense to maybe put an end to back alley gun sales in the Democratically controlled districts where all the gun crime in this state exists?

[mipafox 438]

We do need to close a loophole. NICS is a loophole (albeit illegal) through The Constitution.

 

The loophole that requires FFLs to perform background checks because they have to maintain their licenses under the federal government.

 

That is the loophole. It would be Unconstitutional for the federal government to require people to get permission from the federal government to buy or own a firearm. In 42 States in America there are no laws regarding transfers or sales of any firearms whatsoever.

 

FFL Background checks have only been around for 20 years. All studies by the federal government have concluded they have had no affect on crime, post 2000 Brady term "gun crime," murders, or anything.

 

Leave it to people from Jersey to want to more people to give the government more power to require permission in advance to exercise a Constitutional Right. It's not enough for you people to infringe rights with criminal laws, you actually want people to beg the government for their rights in advance.

 

Shame on you.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

 

I could go to an area less than 4 blocks from the state capital and buy (illegally) a firearm, a prostitute and any drug I would desire. Laws don't stop illegal actions.

[almiz111 26]

They always have wonderful intentions and miserable consequences. This here gun debate is effectively a war with lots of fog.

 

They will take every lousy detail about you and use it against you. They will have your friends and neighbors say things about you and use it against you. They will send SWAT teams and DYFUSS to your door without a warrant. So we might as well be as  extreme as the opposition.

 

I am starting a Paranoid Club of NJ. Sign here.   Free tin foil hats.

[AVB-AMG 530]

I am starting a Paranoid Club of NJ. Sign here. Free tin foil hats.

Almiz111:

 

That is very amusing....

But from reading quite a few postings in this forum, I think you probably already have many members in your club....

 

AVB-AMG

[Midwest 28]

Politicians and those running for office all need to to have periodic criminal and mental health checks themselves. Several of them are clearly already a "little off", some of them have delusions of grandeur who think that they are superior and the their subjects must bow down to them. Some of these "little off" politicians are hell bent on raising even more taxes and using that extra money to oppress the people even more. Clearly these politicians might jeopardize  Public Health, Safety and Welfare" with their grandiose schemes.

 

You can easily tell these politicians who are "a little off". They believe that a village can only raise children, they believe that big government and oppressive laws can solve social problems, they believe that their "superior intellect" makes them suitable to rule over the people with an iron fist.

 

These politicians with delusions of grandeur believe that their political party can best serve the people better than anyone other party can and because they ruled NJ for decades, they have the "right" to remain in power for another 50 or 100 years. These are indicators that politicians might be "all little off" and they all need to have extensive mental and criminal background checks.

 

If they require people who want to exercise their 2A constitutional rights to undergo mental and criminal background checks. Then it is only fair that those in office, or seeking office, or even just running for dog catcher to require extensive and periodic mental and criminal background checks. After all, these people with positions of power affect so many people. They need to be held to a much higher standard.

[Zeke 5,504]

Politicians and those running for office all need to to have periodic criminal and mental health checks themselves. Several of them are clearly already a "little off", some of them have delusions of grandeur who think that they are superior and the their subjects must bow down to them. Some of these "little off" politicians are hell bent on raising even more taxes and using that extra money to oppress the people even more. Clearly these politicians might jeopardize Public Health, Safety and Welfare" with their grandiose schemes.

 

You can easily tell these politicians who are "a little off". They believe that a village can only raise children, they believe that big government and oppressive laws can solve social problems, they believe that their "superior intellect" makes them suitable to rule over the people with an iron fist.

 

These politicians with delusions of grandeur believe that their political party can best serve the people better than anyone other party can and because they ruled NJ for decades, they have the "right" to remain in power for another 50 or 100 years. These are indicators that politicians might be "all little off" and they all need to have extensive mental and criminal background checks.

 

If they require people who want to exercise their 2A constitutional rights to undergo mental and criminal background checks. Then it is only fair that those in office, or seeking office, or even just running for dog catcher to require extensive and periodic mental and criminal background checks. After all, these people with positions of power affect so many people. They need to be held to a much higher standard.

They believe islands can tip over.....

[AVB-AMG 530]

Politicians and those running for office all need to to have periodic criminal and mental health checks themselves. Several of them are clearly already a "little off", some of them have delusions of grandeur who think that they are superior and the their subjects must bow down to them. 

 

Midwest:

 

I think you can expand that suggestion to go beyond the Executive and Legislative Branches of our government and include the Judicial Branch.

 

My proposed solution to this problem is to have our wonderful Congress institute 20 year term limits for all US Supreme Court Justices. When you do the research to determine the average age of when a person is appointed to this high court, over the past 100 years, we see that it is when they are in their mid-50’s. We know from medical studies that mental dementia and early Alzheimer’s disease usually starts in most adults around the age of their mid-70’s. Therefore, let’s force all of these Judges to retire after 20 years of service, allowing whoever is the US President at the time to select a new candidate to take their place and submit them to Congress for their confirmation.

 

This new requirement would not eliminate the most unfortunate so-called “legislation from the bench”, but it would force a fair turnover of Justices so we get people who are hopefully more attuned to the sentiments of the current American citizenry.

 

AVB-AMG

[AVB-AMG 530]

They believe islands can tip over.....

 

Zeke:

For those here who are not understanding your ironic and spot-on comment or do not remember the circumstances, here is an edited version of a CNN report of the incident from early 2010:

 

Congressman clarifies island tipping comment

By Charles Riley / CNN

Washington D.C.

April 2, 2010

 

While hearing testimony from Navy Admiral Robert F. Willard on March 25, Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Georgia, expressed fear that the Pacific island of Guam might capsize if additional U.S. troops are deployed to a military base on the small island as planned.

Johnson said: "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize,"  

 

Admiral Willard replied "We don't anticipate that”.  “The Guam population is currently about 175,000 and, again, with 8,000 Marines and their families, that is an addition of about 25,000 more into the population," Willard deadpanned.

After video of the exchange went viral on the Web, the two-term Democrat released a statement clarifying comments he made, explaining that he was "obviously" joking.  "The subtle humor of this obviously metaphorical reference to a ship capsizing illustrated my concern about the impact of the planned military buildup on this small tropical island," Johnson said in the statement.

 

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported in 2009 that Johnson has battled Hepatitis C for more than a decade, an ailment that causes him to get "lost in thought in the middle of a discussion."

 

To be fair, there are plenty of Republican Congressmen who have made their share of absurd, idiotic statements…. 

But the whole topic of the dysfunctional, if not broken state of our government and the wingbats that are either elected or appointed to serve in our Federal (and State) governments, warrants a new and separate thread.

 

AVB-AMG

[Midwest 28]

Midwest:

 

I think you can expand that suggestion to go beyond the Executive and Legislative Branches of our government and include the Judicial Branch.

 

Agree 100%

[1LtCAP 4,262]

Midwest:

 

I think you can expand that suggestion to go beyond the Executive and Legislative Branches of our government and include the Judicial Branch.

 

My proposed solution to this problem is to have our wonderful Congress institute 20 year term limits for all US Supreme Court Justices. When you do the research to determine the average age of when a person is appointed to this high court, over the past 100 years, we see that it is when they are in their mid-50’s. We know from medical studies that mental dementia and early Alzheimer’s disease usually starts in most adults around the age of their mid-70’s. Therefore, let’s force all of these Judges to retire after 20 years of service, allowing whoever is the US President at the time to select a new candidate to take their place and submit them to Congress for their confirmation.

 

This new requirement would not eliminate the most unfortunate so-called “legislation from the bench”, but it would force a fair turnover of Justices so we get people who are hopefully more attuned to the sentiments of the current American citizenry.

 

AVB-AMG

20 years is too long.

[fapipa 3]

I do not have any problem with this....

 

If someone has been diagnosed by a medical doctor to be mentally ill then I think that information should be reported to the NICS.

Do you really want a mentally ill person to be able to purchase a firearm?

 

Here is a real life example of where this approach leads:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

[AVB-AMG 530]

Here is a real life example of where this approach leads:

/quote]

 

I think we all can discern the difference between mental illness and political dissidents . If what happened in the former Soviet Union was attempted here then I believe there would be a concerted citizen rebellion against the government.

 

It seems like I am in the minority's on this forum, but I believe that mental illness, as currently defined by medical Doctors in this country, should be a disqualifier for purchasing any gun.

 

AVB-AMG

[fapipa 3]

I think we all can discern the difference between mental illness and political dissidents . If what happened in the former Soviet Union was attempted here then I believe there would be a concerted citizen rebellion against the government.

 

It seems like I am in the minority's on this forum, but I believe that mental illness, as currently defined by medical Doctors in this country, should be a disqualified for purchasing any gun.

I saw that system firsthand, and in my experience most of the people who worked in this field were honest, educated medical professionals and scientists, convinced that they were doing the right thing for the benefit of their patients and society. "We" are not that different from "them".

 

As for there being a concerted citizen rebellion, the desire to participate in one can also be diagnosed as a mental illness, and treated accordingly, as illustrated by the documents referenced on the same wiki page. This really is a slippery slope.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

nearly anything can be diagnosed as a mental illness.

[DeerSlayer 241]

nearly anything can be diagnosed as a mental illness.

http://mobile.wnd.com/2008/11/56494/

[mipafox 438]

 

 

 

Here is a real life example of where this approach leads:

/quote]

 

I think we all can discern the difference between mental illness and political dissidents . If what happened in the former Soviet Union was attempted here then I believe there would be a concerted citizen rebellion against the government.

 

It seems like I am in the minority's on this forum, but I believe that mental illness, as currently defined by medical Doctors in this country, should be a disqualifier for purchasing any gun.

 

AVB-AMG

 

What do you propose to do in the 42 states where no background checks are required to enact your agenda?

[Midwest 28]

Suppose a wife seeks mental help because they are stressed out and scared that their spouse has beat them and threatened them again. Because she is stressed out and scared, should she be disarmed? 

 

Should she be forbidden from owning any weapons for 30 days? 

 

Should she be put on some state database "watch list"?

 

Should she have her firearms, permits, licenses and whatever turned into the state under some bogus "Public safety, health and welfare" bullshit excuse?

 

How would she protect herself if she got disarmed because she sought professional help and some 'agency' arbitrarily decides she needs to be disarmed ?

 

Given the political climate, could it come to this? 

 

Would that piece of paper from the court protect her?

 

Hell No