I guess the myth Hornady Critical is sort of legal outside exemptions is busted....

[ogfarmer 138]

http://cliffviewpilot.com/leonia-police-sergeant-finds-passenger-in-bounty-hunters-car-with-handgun-hollow-point-bullets/

 

Leonia police sergeant finds passenger in bounty hunter’s car with handgun, hollow-point bullets

 

[CMJeepster 2,778]

They'll pass on the forbidden ammo and just go for the possession charge. Didn't Ms. Allen face a similar out-of-state situation?

 

BTW, a court case that I was on the jury for a few years ago only mentioned once that the ammo in the fellon's possession was hollow point. It was not a charge to be considered during deliberation, only the possession issue.

[T Bill 649]

ROR? Like she's ever going to come back to NJ, let alone appear in court!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I'm not sure how this will play out in light of the Brian Aitken case and whether or not that was precedent setting. The NJSP asked the AFTE (Association of Firearm and Toolmark Examiners) specifically about Hornady Critical Defense and two other rounds as to whether they should be considered "hollowpoints" - their response is attached below.

 

That response dates from 2009, which predates the Brian Aitken case. The possession of hollowpoints charge against Aitken was the only one that was not overturned (it is being appealed - not sure of the status). In rendering that decision, the presiding judge defined "hollowpoint" or "dum-dum" as any bullet that expands more than normal - or language to that effect - which opens the door as to what is "normal", a vague, undefined term. While that nebulous definition may be hard to apply to something like a JSP, FMJ or cast lead bullet, there is no question that Hornady Critical defense and the other named rounds were designed to expand, even if they don't meet the AFTE's definition.

 

I think the vagueness of what constitutes a prohibited bullet will lead to exactly what others have pointed out - they will drop the hollowpoint charge and prosecute on the possession charge - should she ever return to NJ.

 

Just my $.02

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

njsp_hollowpoint.pdf

[Polak 3]

NJAG doesn't define those as hollow points.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

Does anyone have a history of the law? Was it intended to go after Black Talon rounds, or all HP ammo in general? This still boggles my mind as a projectile, no matter what the design, if discharged in an illegal manner will still make a hole.

 

Thanks New Jersey!!!

[PeteF 1,044]

Does anyone have a history of the law? Was it intended to go after Black Talon rounds, or all HP ammo in general? This still boggles my mind as a projectile, no matter what the design, if discharged in an illegal manner will still make a hole.

 

Thanks New Jersey!!!

No its just lawmakers that have no understanding of firearms making laws.  It was because they "would go thru a officers vest".  Kind of like why sling shots are illegal because of a clerks typo.

[david8613 69]

Wait, I always thought hollow points were ok as long they are not used in committing a crime then they become illegal. For home defense and range use is it OK to have hollow points?

[Howard 538]

Wait, I always thought hollow points were ok as long they are not used in committing a crime then they become illegal. For home defense and range use is it OK to have hollow points?

They are fine for in your home and at the range.  I believe they are illegal in your carry gun, you know for the 1,500 or so civilians that know a judge, know someone sleeping with a judge or know of a judge sleeping with someone they should not be.  I believe, but am not 100% certain as it does not impact me, they are not legal in officers off duty weapons or retired LEO's guns but I might have that wrong.  Just more stupid New Jermany crap.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Wait, I always thought hollow points were ok as long they are not used in committing a crime then they become illegal. For home defense and range use is it OK to have hollow points?

When they first passed the hollowpoint law police were arresting criminals who had ditched the gun but still had hollowpoints in possession. They were arrested for possession of hollowpoints. I think it was judge's that didn't like this and the AG instructed prosecutors to use the hollowpoint charge only when there was also a gun charge. You can be charged with possession of hollowpoints as a matter of law but not as a matter of policy. I have only found one case where someone has been charged with possession of hollowpoints ONLY in the past 15 years.

 

Possession of hollowpoints at home is legal. You will not find a law that says you can use hollowpoints for SD at home as most laws will tell you what you can't do not what you can do. If you are very concerned about using hollowpoints in a home SD situation use fmj and stop worrying. Or use a shotgun or AR.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Under NJ law hollowpoints are legal for NJ LEOs on or off duty . Feds can do what they want as they are not subject to NJ law. Every Federal agency issues hollowpoints.

 

NJ says out of state and retired LEO cannot carry hollowpoints under LEOSA. LEOSA says they can. LEOSA is Federal law that trumps any state law. NJ also says retired LEO that live in NJ must have Retired Police Officer permit. LEOSA doesn't give states the option to make their own laws regarding retired LEO carrying under LEOSA with the exception of forbidding carry in state or local government forbidding carry in government owned buildings or property. LEOSA starts out by tossing all state concealed carry laws out of the window except what I've mentioned.

[fslater 62]

As much as I hate to admit it I've always thought the polymer tipped stuff folks claim NJ legal was actually not........ Doesnt matter why HP/DumDum is illegal, point is that it is..... DumDum wording in the statute is the kicker = any ammo that expands

When ever I talk to some one from out of state that first finds out HP is illegal here their response is typically WTF    They trying to promote  caladeral damage in NJ?  then you have to explain how an evil hollow point will stop a BG faster and in NJ thats not acceptable  

[kman 56]

When they first passed the hollowpoint law police were arresting criminals who had ditched the gun but still had hollowpoints in possession. They were arrested for possession of hollowpoints. I think it was judge's that didn't like this and the AG instructed prosecutors to use the hollowpoint charge only when there was also a gun charge. You can be charged with possession of hollowpoints as a matter of law but not as a matter of policy. I have only found one case where someone has been charged with possession of hollowpoints ONLY in the past 15 years.

 

Possession of hollowpoints at home is legal. You will not find a law that says you can use hollowpoints for SD at home as most laws will tell you what you can't do not what you can do. If you are very concerned about using hollowpoints in a home SD situation use fmj and stop worrying. Or use a shotgun or AR.

That is some nice research. Is the AG's instruction on this in writing?

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

 

[1LtCAP 4,264]

As much as I hate to admit it I've always thought the polymer tipped stuff folks claim NJ legal was actually not........ Doesnt matter why HP/DumDum is illegal, point is that it is..... DumDum wording in the statute is the kicker = any ammo that expands

When ever I talk to some one from out of state that first finds out HP is illegal here their response is typically WTF    They trying to promote  caladeral damage in NJ?  then you have to explain how an evil hollow point will stop a BG faster and in NJ thats not acceptable  

i always thought that the reason for the polymyr tipped stuff was a workaround for the hollowpiont thing......guess i'll just run fmj.........

[GRIZ 3,369]

Does anyone have a history of the law? Was it intended to go after Black Talon rounds, or all HP ammo in general? This still boggles my mind as a projectile, no matter what the design, if discharged in an illegal manner will still make a hole.

Thanks New Jersey!!!

 

 

Black Talons got the most press but they brought all hollowpoints under scrutiny.

 

 

 

That is some nice research. Is the AG's instruction on this in writing?

 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I didn't research this. I lived through this working with state and local leos. I can't remember seeing an AG's opinion in writing. I was a Federal leo and really was not privy to all things that have effect on state law. How I related it was how it was explained to me by the state and local leos I worked with. It's reinforced by the almost total lack of cases where someone Is arrested and charged only with possession of hollowpoints.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

It's reinforced by the almost total lack of cases where someone Is arrested and charged only with possession of hollowpoints.

Speaking of which, does anyone have an update on Brad Benson's kid?

[Kevin125 4,772]

Nothing in google search since last August. Only weapon mentioned in the case is his truck. Driving around with hollow points sounds about as bright as driving around in circles in a bar parking lot.

[ogfarmer 138]

Speaking of which, does anyone have an update on Brad Benson's kid?

hes my neighbor btw