Do I have "Justifiable Need" ???

[AMScott 3]

Several months ago a guy threatened to kill me by running me down with his truck, Then he actually tried to follow through. The whole event was recorded on security cameras. I have the video. Lawyer hired, charges filed and court date set.... This is not the first time this guy has attempted to or threatened me with harm and this is not my first time charging him..... This is the first time I thought I may actually be physically hurt... Is this "Justifiable Need" ?????

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Do you have a badge or hold a government office?

[AMScott 3]

No.... I don't have a badge. Yes.... I served on the County Republican Committee for about 20 years, County Republican Executive Board for about 5 years, Elected Municipal Official for about 10 years along with a few other things.... These things do not make my need any more or less justifiable in my opinion...

[Midwest 28]

Give it shot, pardon the pun.

[boo 6]

Can you list your state senator and/or assembly person as references on your application? I bet that would help a lot.

[PK90 3,570]

NJ needs a poster child. Thank you for stepping up.

[AMScott 3]

Can you list your state senator and/or assembly person as references on your application? I bet that would help a lot.

Personal friends with 2 State Senators ( way before either was a Senator) and a family member serves in the NJ Assembly......  Does being friends with these people make my need "justifiable" ???   I guess my point is does my situation by itself constitute a justifiable need ? Who my friends are should not matter... I shouldn't have to "call in a favor" to protect myself from a documented threat....

[Krdshrk 3,877]

. I shouldn't have to "call in a favor" to protect myself from a documented threat....

 

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case for NJ.  I say go for it.

[jm1827 284]

Logic says you definitely have justifiable need to protect yourself, but at times this state defies logic.  That being said, I recommend you go for it!

[pjd832 146]

Since you are typing the message and weren't killed by nj interpretation/s.o.p. no you don't have justifiable need ...and everyone has justifiable need for self protection....threats/forewarning aren't given in all cases of attack....and the mindset of having to have/accepting the requirement of a "documented threat" is utter horseshit ....home invasions don't call ahead and schedule it...... but good luck you may get lucky and be deemed worthy of becoming a member of the nj elite and "given permission"....although I'm sure it will require string pulling/special favors etc

[siderman 1,137]

"it is not reasonable to think a bullit will stop a truck so there for your app is denied."   just an excerpt from your future court ruling....  

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Setting aside all the conditioned reflex answers in the above posts, and using the "reasonable person" standard, I would certainly think that you have a justifiable need. You are correct in saying that all the facetious questions posed above should have no impact on whether your need is justifiable - but as was pointed out, this is New Jersey, so knowing the people you do and having the background that you have, certainly couldn't hurt.

 

If you are seriously in fear for your life (and your antagonist sounds like a real nut-job), I wouldn't go it alone, I'd hire an attorney to walk you through the process and smooth any bumps. It also couldn't hurt to take some defensive shooting instruction, if you haven't already.

 

Good luck in your quest.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[1LtCAP 4,262]

No.... I don't have a badge. Yes.... I served on the County Republican Committee for about 20 years, County Republican Executive Board for about 5 years, Elected Municipal Official for about 10 years along with a few other things.... These things do not make my need any more or less justifiable in my opinion...

they do in the state of nj's eyes.

[mipafox 438]

Heh. Should be good.

 

Didn't one judge reply that the guy should just leave NJ if he felt the danger was that serious?

 

Keep your head down and out of the street.

[CMJeepster 2,777]

[Kevin125 4,772]

I'd give it a try and use the friends who have the highest political standing and who agree to be a reference.   If your Superior Court Judge is a republican, as I assume your friends are, you might actually get it.  That's your best shot at getting a carry permit.

 

The reality is in this state that a threat to your life is only considered a justifiable need if you are a Dem politician living in a state with Republicans who own guns.  I assume that's how Steve Sweeney got his carry permit.  For everyone else... you have to be killed first to demonstrate the threat was sufficient to warrant a carry permit.

 

Also, since you were or are involved in municipal politics, did you speak to your town's police chief?  And what made you come here for info rather than the people you know in town?  Just curious.

 

Last thing, I'd suggest buying a big truck.  Your nemesis sounds like a lunatic.  He should have been arrested for attempted vehicular homicide. Or some other felony.   Edit: I re-read your original post.

 

Good luck.

[springfieldxds 0]

we know of a person who empties ATM machines and has received death threats and was almost robbed, more than once

 

we also know someone who was kidnapped, beaten and taken across state lines, and the state fought as hard as they could to not give him a license until they were forced to 

 

no offense but there really is no such thing as justifiable need in NJ, the judge will just tell you to move, hire security or call the police everytime you are in danger

 

the only hope you have for getting a permit is your political connections

[PK90 3,570]

... the only hope you have for getting a permit is your political connections

 

I fully concur.

[glockamole 0]

The fact that muggings and car jackings are random and outside ones home should be justified it's self. My life should matter no less because I can be a random target. One day NJ will get it right.... Until then we can be just waiting victims. Your political pull would probably help more in nj than the attempted assaults. Threats and attempts on your life probably don't cut it as justifiable need in NJ.

[mipafox 438]

If you are going to do this I would at least chat with Gura and SAF first. You probably won't get the permit, maybe you will with your connections (doubtful). But since you think you have some specific threats it makes sense to at least speak to some legal activists in case they think your case can further the overall effort in Jersey. Not saying you need to go that route, I just think it would be worthwhile talking to them and hear what they have to say.

[NickySantoro 211]

Justifiable need? You could have some ISIS a**hole standing over you with a sword ready to cut your head off and they would tell you to try again after he cut your head off. This is New Jerky. Leave reason and logic at the border. That being said, some here do what they need to do when they need to do it and have no intention of sticking around to explain themselves should push come to shove. Their rationale is that if you're not there when the popo arrive, you were never there. Works for me. Should you by some remote chance be identified, how much more trouble could you possibly be in for leaving the scene than the trouble you would be in for wasting some a**hole when you don't have a carry permit? In any event, you'll still be alive.

[PK90 3,570]

Perhaps stating that "Climate Change" is your "Justifiable Need". The President thinks so.

[Newtonian 453]

It's time 2A-loving individuals in this state and their supporters across the state borders stopped respecting the ridiculous concept of justifiable need. Stop feeding the poop-eating monster what he likes to eat. As I have explained to Mr. Almeida in person, demonstrating justifiable need to the corrupt political system is a dead end that hurts us more than it helps us. 

 

STOP THINKING LIKE ZOMBIES, which is who JN was designed for. Stop groveling. Stop respecting the process that enforces ridiculous NJ gun laws. Stop kissing judges' asses in the hope that they will continue to break the supreme law of the land and continue shoving that ungreased telephone pole up our rear ends. 

 

Let these guys fight their battles with their own money and effort. The only outcomes that can possibly help us is if they all lose.

 

Because frankly I don't have an ATM business and I tend to stay away from places where individuals threaten to kill me. Nevertheless, my life is no less important than theirs. 

[Zeke 5,504]

It's time 2A-loving individuals in this state and their supporters across the state borders stopped respecting the ridiculous concept of justifiable need. Stop feeding the poop-eating monster what he likes to eat. As I have explained to Mr. Almeida in person, demonstrating justifiable need to the corrupt political system is a dead end that hurts us more than it helps us.

 

STOP THINKING LIKE ZOMBIES, which is who JN was designed for. Stop groveling. Stop respecting the process that enforces ridiculous NJ gun laws. Stop kissing judges' asses in the hope that they will continue to break the supreme law of the land and continue shoving that ungreased telephone pole up our rear ends.

 

Let these guys fight their battles with their own money and effort. The only outcomes that can possibly help us is if they all lose.

 

Because frankly I don't have an ATM business and I tend to stay away from places where individuals threaten to kill me. Nevertheless, my life is no less important than theirs.

See you at the recall Sweeney rally. I would love to put words to faces to action.....

[Newtonian 453]

See you at the recall Sweeney rally. I would love to put words to faces to action.....

As you very well know I do not waste my time tilting at windmills. I hope you get 50,000 people. But you and I know you'll be lucky if 100 show up. Good luck.

 

[Zeke 5,504]

As you very well know I do not waste my time tilting at windmills. I hope you get 50,000 people. But you and I know you'll be lucky if 100 show up. Good luck.

 

Lol, I figured.

Let me give you some advice.

To lead, you must first follow.

[NickySantoro 211]

You know, if cops would focus on "protect and serve" rather than "dominate and control" all this crap would be a non-issue. Stop trying to get a "good bust" on your resume and do the job you are supposed to do. A middle-aged lady with her late husbands gun in the car because she is afraid is not a danger to society. She's afraid because she doesn't feel protected. Whose job is it to protect her? Yours, but you know you can't protect her. Why are you punishing her for protecting herself?

[GRIZ 3,369]

You know, if cops would focus on "protect and serve" rather than "dominate and control" all this crap would be a non-issue. Stop trying to get a "good bust" on your resume and do the job you are supposed to do. A middle-aged lady with her late husbands gun in the car because she is afraid is not a danger to society. She's afraid because she doesn't feel protected. Whose job is it to protect her? Yours, but you know you can't protect her. Why are you punishing her for protecting herself?

Cops do not write laws or define justifiable need. Would you please explain your rationale why the carry permit situation in NJ is the way it is because of cops?

[mipafox 438]

Justifiable need? You could have some ISIS a**hole standing over you with a sword ready to cut your head off and they would tell you to try again after he cut your head off.

That's ridiculous.

 

"Isis is a joke. They are the 'JV' team." - Osama bin Barack.

[Midwest 28]

The concealed carry permit law dates back to 1924 in New Jersey.

 

A person applies to the police chief or sheriff, if approved then it goes to the Superior Court Judge who reviews the application and if there is a need for the permit. It will be approved. While it wasn't called "justifiable need" back then, "of need" probably meant the same thing.

 

Excerpts from the law

 

"Chapter 137 Laws of 1924 Page 305 - 308 Concealed carry permit now needed. Establishes Record of Sale, Registry, signature of buyer and seller, duplicate needs to be delivered to chief of police, penalties include a high misdemeanor, 24 hour waiting period, no sales after 3 pm, presidents of banks and trust associations, loan institutions, can make application for (up to) 20 permits for the employees,agents, messengers and clerks. Does not apply to State Police or any motor vehicle inspector...Approved March 11 1924"

 

 

Check out the entire concealed carry permit law for 1924 at

http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/diglib.cgi?collect=njleg&file=148&page=0305&zoom=90

 

 

Edit:

 

From

Page 306

"If such application is approved by the chief of police of the sheriff, as in the case of may be, the applicant shall then present such application, so approved as aforesaid, to the Justice of The Supreme Court holding the circuit for the county in which the applicant is resident, who after investigation, and being satisfied of the sufficiency of the application, and of need of such person carrying concealed upon his person, a revolver or other firearm shall issue a permit therfor."

 

Note: It says absolutely nothing about restrictions or requiring a permit  for open carrying, it mentions carrying concealed. Open carrying seems to have been permitted at one time. I have not yet found a date when open carrying was prohibited by law. Maybe 1966? I'm not sure, need to research further unless someone has a year I could look up.

 

Further info

 

The handgun registry (in duplicate) seems to appear here for the first time on pages 306 and 307. A copy must be delivered to the police chief or the county clerk. And there is mention of a 24 hour waiting period for handguns as well. And no sales after 3 PM.

 

.