Jump to content
Ace08066

Reccomend a good, lightweight drop-in handguard?

Recommended Posts

Hey fellers.  I've been looking around for a decent AR-15 drop-in handguard that is lightweight and has at least a partial rail on the top for mounting a RDS close to the front.  Carbine length w/ delta ring.  So far haven't found any after searching around a bit...  I did find one that was basically perfect - smooth and slim guard with a rail on the top - but it said it weighed 1.1 lbs.  Seemed kinda heavy to me...  Right now I have a quad rail i spent $22 on that probably weights more than the gun itself...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YFTZpH.png

 

Diamondhead VRS..two piece drop in with top rail...side and bottom rail can be purchased and added..not sure about weight but its pretty light..just replaced mine with a Daniel Defense Omega..can possibly part with it if interested..

 

P.S. Vlad is 100% correct and sorry for crappy pic

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jrfly: How much ya looking to get for it?  That's pretty close to the image i had in my head of what I wanted.

 

Vlad / Jrfly: I realize mounting an RDS onto a drop-in handguard could be a bad idea considering it's prone to move slightly.  I'm only considering it because it would seem the consensus votes the farther forward the sight the better when talking about RDS.  It makes perfect sense to me *why*, even though I am admittedly a noob to the AR platform and rifles in general.  I grew up shooting handguns and the only one I ever did have a sight on was a sig .45 and I had the sight almost all the way to the back.

 

I'm rambling though...  I know the optimal setup would be a free-float system to have the RDS on the rail, but #1: I don't have the money to spend on a decent free-float, and #2: I'm done spending money on budget parts.  Learned my lesson when I spent $22 on the quad rail I have now thinking, "Oh, hey, it's exactly what I want" then see the UPS guy using a hand truck to deliver it.  I exaggerate of coarse, but you catch my drift... lol  

 

Basically I don't like the look of the stock handguard, and since I can't spend the money on a free float right now (Mostly because I'm going to buy a decent holo), I wanna go with the drop-in handguard.  

 

I actually like the look of that a lot, Jrfly.  If you're willing to sell, lemme know what you want for it.  If you're in Monmouth county it's a bit of a drive so maybe we can set something up I'll take the trip to do some shootin' with ya at the same time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran the Daniel Defense Omega rail for a few years and I'm a fan of how solid it was. I don't think there was any play on it at all. I still would never mount an optic on a handguard unless it was free floated on a decent rail. The DD Omega rails are worth the money b

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not put your RDS in your handguard. That is an awful awful awful idea. Where are you finding the "consensus" that is leading you to think putting it out front is a good idea? What rationale are you understanding that makes sense to you? I am truly curious.

 

Mount your RDS optic on your flat top receiver above the mag well. Look at any of the AR picture threads - You will not see RDS mounted on handguards. *caveat* unless there is a fixed carry handle issue, but even then it's a bad idea.

 

If you are looking for a capable and affordable handguard look at the Magpul MOE. It does everything you need a non-free float handguard to do.

 

What else do you want to mount to the handguard? Light, VFG/handstop, laser, bipod? Let your "mission" drive the gear train. If all you are planning to run is a light and VFG and you aren't shooting long range from braced/barricaded positions - you don't need a FF tube.

 

I have a DD Omega 7 on my work gun. It's a good rail - solid and easy to install without permanent modification to an issued weapon (which is important due to SOP) and allows me to mount light, laser, and handstop with no issue.

 

Any railed handguard will weigh more than a tube type. There is no free lunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had the diamond head and liked it, the moe which is a great value, and now I have an omega rail I picked up for cheap for a good free float option.

 

If you want drop in and cheap go moe

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jrfly: How much ya looking to get for it? That's pretty close to the image i had in my head of what I wanted.

 

Vlad / Jrfly: I realize mounting an RDS onto a drop-in handguard could be a bad idea considering it's prone to move slightly. I'm only considering it because it would seem the consensus votes the farther forward the sight the better when talking about RDS. It makes perfect sense to me *why*, even though I am admittedly a noob to the AR platform and rifles in general. I grew up shooting handguns and the only one I ever did have a sight on was a sig .45 and I had the sight almost all the way to the back.

 

I'm rambling though... I know the optimal setup would be a free-float system to have the RDS on the rail, but #1: I don't have the money to spend on a decent free-float, and #2: I'm done spending money on budget parts. Learned my lesson when I spent $22 on the quad rail I have now thinking, "Oh, hey, it's exactly what I want" then see the UPS guy using a hand truck to deliver it. I exaggerate of coarse, but you catch my drift... lol

 

Basically I don't like the look of the stock handguard, and since I can't spend the money on a free float right now (Mostly because I'm going to buy a decent holo), I wanna go with the drop-in handguard.

 

I actually like the look of that a lot, Jrfly. If you're willing to sell, lemme know what you want for it. If you're in Monmouth county it's a bit of a drive so maybe we can set something up I'll take the trip to do some shootin' with ya at the same time!

I will PM you in the morning when I dig it out of my parts bin...I want to make sure I have all of the hardware for it...also seeing that youre in south Jersey..i can ship if needed..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not put your RDS in your handguard. That is an awful awful awful idea. Where are you finding the "consensus" that is leading you to think putting it out front is a good idea? What rationale are you understanding that makes sense to you? I am truly curious.

 

Mount your RDS optic on your flat top receiver above the mag well. Look at any of the AR picture threads - You will not see RDS mounted on handguards. *caveat* unless there is a fixed carry handle issue, but even then it's a bad idea.

 

If you are looking for a capable and affordable handguard look at the Magpul MOE. It does everything you need a non-free float handguard to do.

 

What else do you want to mount to the handguard? Light, VFG/handstop, laser, bipod? Let your "mission" drive the gear train. If all you are planning to run is a light and VFG and you aren't shooting long range from braced/barricaded positions - you don't need a FF tube.

 

I have a DD Omega 7 on my work gun. It's a good rail - solid and easy to install without permanent modification to an issued weapon (which is important due to SOP) and allows me to mount light, laser, and handstop with no issue.

 

Any railed handguard will weigh more than a tube type. There is no free lunch.

 

See, this is why I absolutely love this forum...  Always get a legitimate, thoughtful response to everything.

 

I was initially told by an ex Marine friend he preferred to have non-magnified optics closer to the front of the weapon because he felt it took away from the view obstruction and made for faster target acquisition.  He never actually said "on the handguard", and in the moment I didn't ask him to specify.  I did some searches on the topic from just random online sources (Stuck "Where to place RDS on rifle" in Bing) and from what I saw, "Closer to the front of the weapon" was a pretty common theme.  Perhaps I was exaggerating the non-specifics by thinking this meant on the handguard.  

 

It made sense to me because the closer to the front of the weapon the optic the smaller area it actually takes up in your field of view.  Now, this doesn't matter much to me because I've always shot with both eyes open...  But another point made sense to me that the variable placement of the weapon when it's shouldered quickly as well as the difficulty of keeping it on target while moving would benefit from having the sight closer to the front.  

 

Also, no I'm over the bipod.  I realized having a bipod on a carbine is a bit silly given it's just simply not what the rifle is meant for, and since that same friend I spoke of earlier taught me a really effective method of bracing the firearm in the prone position that's actually more comfortable than shooting on a bipod.  While I thoroughly enjoy sniping, I'm going to eventually buy a real rifle-length firearm to build for that purpose.  I'm going to start using my carbine for what it's meant for - close/medium range quick shooting.  I'm sure you guys probably remember my post a few months ago about my first rifle here...  And as silly as I feel I have to admit I've come to the realization there's really no reason to put all the mall ninja gadgets on it.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keeping both eyes open while shooting should remedy most field of view issues. If you decide on an aimpoint pro or similar you can buy a cantilever mount to push it up some more but still on the upper receiver rail.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll echo what has already been said, a RDS on the quad rail is a crap plan.

 

Look for a used (or factory blemished) Knights Armament M4 RAS. The blemished M4's run about $150 from KAC.

I see them frequently on other gun boards equipment exchanges for $80-90.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At close range having an open RDS as close to the front of the rifle as possible allows you to get it on target faster. That's why he hear it. Not going to argue with all the experts here about it, you can look into it if you feel so inclined or just call me an idiot as usual.

 

Similarly, there is anecdotal evidence shotguns get on target faster in shoothouses. I've heard of a two cases of this test panning out recently.

 

But you would certainly lose accuracy as range stretches even a little with your idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Similarly, there is anecdotal evidence shotguns get on target faster in shoothouses. I've heard of a two cases of this test panning out recently.

 

 

Can you point to that evidence?

 

Even if such evidence exists and it isn't written in crayon, rifles are not shotguns, they have different ranges they operate at, they are aimed differently, etc. Setting up a rifle like a shotgun is like putting a  12x scope on a shotgun because it turns out you can shoot small group with slugs at 100 yards. Well yes you can, but you are reducing what the weapon can do by worrying about a small aspect of it. 

 

Moving your RDS forward makes no sense to me, as decent RDS's are parallax free and it shouldn't matter at all where they are in your view, heck, moving them forward risks actually obscuring the dot itself with the body of the sight and having to hunt for it more. 

 

Plus you know .. putting sights on hand guards is just patently bad for actually aiming seeing how you are going to move your sights all over the place with your hand pressure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting it on handguards can be bad, especially non-floated. The reason moving it forward can get people on target faster at close range is that the barrel gets you on target, or the axial length of the weapon overall. Bringing a close object to your face (like a sight) or looking for a close point of aim (like a dot) does not as quickly bring it onto target as fast as visually bringing a long object on it. Not talking about point shooting, either.

 

Not recommending it, explaining why he has seen it and heard of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I'm still a bit confused, but at least I am a bit less worried becuase the first post made it sound like you were recommending it. 

 

The reason it makes no sense to me is because for most close range shooting with an RDS you aren't looking at the dot anyway, you are looking at the target and letting the dot be on it, and as the sight is parallax free it makes no difference if it is mounted close or far.  This is also why the shotgun analogy is broken, the front sight of a shotgun is not something you use to really aim, it is something you use to ensure your eye is following the barrel and as such putting it far out make sense.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At close range having an open RDS as close to the front of the rifle as possible allows you to get it on target faster. That's why he hear it. Not going to argue with all the experts here about it, you can look into it if you feel so inclined or just call me an idiot as usual.

 

Similarly, there is anecdotal evidence shotguns get on target faster in shoothouses. I've heard of a two cases of this test panning out recently.

 

But you would certainly lose accuracy as range stretches even a little with your idea.

Shenanigans.

 

An RDS mounted far forward on the handguard takes longer to get on target especially in a Shoothouse or doing CQB/FISHing. If the opposite were true, everyone that shoots for a living would have optics near their muzzles - but you don't see that do you?

 

First, it simply takes longer to come to eye level from either indoor or low ready as the optic has to travel a longer distance. (This is the main reason I have a problem believing a bead sighted* shotgun is faster on target in a shoothouse than a rifle with an optic)

 

Second, the "window" in the optic that the dot appears in appears smaller the further it is from your eye. This also makes it harder to locate the dot when snapping the rifle up, making target acquisition slower.

 

Mounting the optic over the Magwell keeps the center of balance between your hands. This allows you to drive the gun faster and makes it easier to stop. Extra weight near the muzzle makes the rifle harder to start and stop. It's bad enough with a light/laser out there. No reason to add an optic too.

 

When using a RDS for CQB you are not using a close point of aim. You focus on your target and superimpose the dot where you want to hit, making appropriate adjustments for mechanical offset inside 25 yards.

 

Unless you are zeroing or shooting for pure accuracy, then you may focus on the dot.

 

*As for your comments regarding shotguns I am assuming you are talking about a bead sighted shotgun. As ghost ring or rifle sighted setups don't give you that option. Either way it's apples to oranges, like Vlad said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Shenanigans.

 

An RDS mounted far forward on the handguard takes longer to get on target especially in a Shoothouse or doing CQB/FISHing. If the opposite were true, everyone that shoots for a living would have optics near their muzzles - but you don't see that do you?

 

First, it simply takes longer to come to eye level from either indoor or low ready as the optic has to travel a longer distance. (This is the main reason I have a problem believing a bead sighted* shotgun is faster on target in a shoothouse than a rifle with an optic)

 

Second, the "window" in the optic that the dot appears in appears smaller the further it is from your eye. This also makes it harder to locate the dot when snapping the rifle up, making target acquisition slower.

 

Mounting the optic over the Magwell keeps the center of balance between your hands. This allows you to drive the gun faster and makes it easier to stop. Extra weight near the muzzle makes the rifle harder to start and stop. It's bad enough with a light/laser out there. No reason to add an optic too.

 

When using a RDS for CQB you are not using a close point of aim. You focus on your target and superimpose the dot where you want to hit, making appropriate adjustments for mechanical offset inside 25 yards.

 

Unless you are zeroing or shooting for pure accuracy, then you may focus on the dot.

 

*As for your comments regarding shotguns I am assuming you are talking about a bead sighted shotgun. As ghost ring or rifle sighted setups don't give you that option. Either way it's apples to oranges, like Vlad said.

 

 

In other words, you've never had a group test it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Test what?

 

I know putting an Aimpoint on the handguard near the muzzle is slower. Don't need to test it. It's been tested by folks better than me.

 

As far as testing a bead sighted shotgun v a rifle with a RDS - Why? It would be a waste of time and ammo.

 

I'd be curious to see the results of the two tests you have heard about. What were the lighting conditions in the SH? What were the shooter's backgrounds? What did the targets/shot placement look like? Was there any stress placed on the shooters? Was this during a class? Was a single targets or multiple threats engaged?

 

I could set up a test that had a shotgunner out perform a guy with a carbine all day long. It wouldn't be a fair test or scientific in any way shape or form, but it would be a "test".

 

In any event, a bead sighted shotgun is not something I would ever conduct CQB/HD with. The platform does not fit my requirements for that work. Even if it was faster in one specific scenario/instance/test that doesn't make it a better overall choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come to think of it, I never tested suicide either, but I still know it is a bad idea.

 

I have mounted reddot's all over hand guards including 15" ones and decided it was a ridiculous idea.

 

Be aware of the "trick of the day" effect. This is something pretty known in competitive circles, you take some new piece of kit or technique and focus all your mental energies on it and trying to make it work in your routine. Surprisingly, you shoot better and immediately attribute it the trick of the day being awesome. What actually happens is that by focusing on thing and one thing only you allow yourself to actually do what you know to do without getting in your own way.  You run that way for a bit and then you notice your performance slacked, because the trick of the day is no longer interesting enough to fool you and you backslide. The trick of the day was never what made your shooting better.

 

For this reason, don't ever test something once. Use a timer, and test it over and over and over again, and keep comparing it with no doing that one thing. Plus repeated and repeatable measurable exercises are the only way to ensure you are not being screwed by statistics anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for what its worth I have had red dots mounted further out (on AK gas tubes), and closer to the eye (as is typical on an AR).. I personally found the optic mounted closer to be faster.. but that is just my personal experience.. and may be different for others.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking to change out the handguard (from the stock round one) on my AR flat top OR too. I have flip up iron sights and a co-witness red dot. This ones not a 500 yd tack driver so I'm not interested in a floater. Its not a Mall Nija so I don't need a quad rail. Just a reasonably light, reasonably cheap, more comfortable than the roundy hand guard. I'm looking at the Magpul. It comes in all 3 gas length and seems to fit my needs and snaps down on the existing delta ring and round front cap. As far as I can see its exactly what I'm looking for. Anybody that has one see any down side to it for my intended use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with the magpul handguard if you don't care about free floating, and a lot right with it.

 

I'm a fanatical believer in free floating handguards regardless of barrel length and intended use of the rifle because I've seen how badly a non free floated handguard can affect point of impact, but if that is something you don't need the magpul is great handguard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It shoots accurate with the stock hand guard..... Like I said, Its not a tack driver, but fine for what it is.            Besides to go free float (Which I have on other ARs) on this one I'd have to get a pinned and welded comp off. That alone would prompt to leave it as is if after market drop ins didn't exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It shoots accurate with the stock hand guard..... Like I said, Its not a tack driver, but fine for what it is.            Besides to go free float (Which I have on other ARs) on this one I'd have to get a pinned and welded comp off. That alone would prompt to leave it as is if after market drop ins didn't exist.

Not unless you use a FF hand guard that uses the standard barrel nut like the Troy Alpha/Bravo rails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking to replace a stock hand guard with a $35 drop in that's little more comfortable to hold and looks real nice and I get reply's for, Troy Alpha/Bravo rails, ​Daniel Defense Omega's, fancy carbon fiber.......... Guys, I'm POOR! I godda hear from my wife how she's going to divorce me next time I spend money on that damn gun every time the credit card bill comes in with $150 from Dicks for ammo. She just doesn't understand!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...