Defendant living out of a Van

[SJG 253]

Can a person who is living out of a van which he regards as his home and who does not have any fixed residence carry a firearm while inside the van?

Can he carry while inside the van only while it is stopped?

While it is moving?

Interesting case

[jackandjill 683]

I assume no FPID then, and/or this is for handguns. Can a reasonable person (Jury) be convinced that its a residence, dwelling, premise, or place of business ?  

 

A mobile home with various amenities - may be. 

A regular van - unlikely.

[SJG 253]

Handgun legally acquired

No FPID

Has a FL carry permit, not recognized in NJ

Has been living out of the van since he lost his job. He has a bed in the van and sleeps on it. He has a chemical toilet in the van. He eats some of his meals in the van

He listed the van on his tax return as his residence when he filed his tax return, but picks up his mail at the post office.

[jackandjill 683]

Interesting.  I assume he is resident of NJ and not passing through.

 

If were I were to be on the jury, this is a non-issue, let the person go his way. He already has enough stuff in life to deal with. I personally believe there is hope in favor of the Defendant, with the usual disclaimer that this is NJ. 

[1LtCAP 4,263]

is this just a conversion van? or is it a van with a camper body on it, like used to be common to see in the 80's?

 

 if it's just a normal conversion van, i think that he's gonna be found "not allowed", if for no other reason that the state will fear people now listing their trucks/vans as their homes so they can carry. if it's more of a camper, then possibly.

[Johnny 0]

Does he park it down by the river?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Handgun legally acquired

No FPID

Has a FL carry permit, not recognized in NJ

Has been living out of the van since he lost his job. He has a bed in the van and sleeps on it. He has a chemical toilet in the van. He eats some of his meals in the van

He listed the van on his tax return as his residence when he filed his tax return, but picks up his mail at the post office.

I LOVE this story!  It has NUANCE!

 

..........."other land or PROPERTY OWNED OR POSSESSED BY HIM" comes immediately to mind Mr. Attorney!  For if the Lawyers that write the laws wanted to infer only terrafirma real estate, a rented hotel/motel  room, etc., they would have stated so, right?  Is a Van "property"?  I think so!

 

It's been my contention to interpret "other land or property" to include closed rentals, retail establishments, even an empty "for-rent" gas station on a lonely county road in bumf**k NJ as "other land or property".  See, I believe that somewhere along the way, colonial law from the 1600 and 1700's (where land owners have more rights) snuck into the equation.  Land owners could VOTE, commoners couldn't.  Land owners paid the majority of taxes and felt they deserved more "rights", up to and including the right to patrol one's PROPERTY while armed with a firearm (doesn't say LONG GUN!)...

 

Proper interpretation of the legalese and phrasing of NJ gun law is only available to THINKERS who use the punctuation as intended.  Getting a Judge to interpret it the correct way is another matter.  Getting a panel to agree on an appeal is even harder.  I wish you luck in this endeavor. 

[PK90 3,570]

ATF says he will need a permanent residence, not an RV to buy a gun from a dealer. Been there, done that. As far as possessing one, it is his home, so I see no problem.

[RobertJames 14]

Does he park it down by the river?

 

Matt Foley, lol.

[mipafox 438]

I assume no FPID then, and/or this is for handguns. Can a reasonable person (Jury) be convinced that its a residence, dwelling, premise, or place of business ?

Fixed place of business.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Fixed place of business.

i'll take that part a bit farther. you've seen those lunch trucks in philly? the ones that don't move? and probably couldn't without a tow truck? since they can't move under their own power, and i believe that those guys pay for the spaces they've got......and i think there's places that have those types here in nj......does that qualify as a fixed place of business?

[Smokin .50 1,907]

i'll take that part a bit farther. you've seen those lunch trucks in philly? the ones that don't move? and probably couldn't without a tow truck? since they can't move under their own power, and i believe that those guys pay for the spaces they've got......and i think there's places that have those types here in nj......does that qualify as a fixed place of business?

More nuance!

 

I would tend to say it does, especially if the tires are flat or the truck is up on blocks.........

[JohnnyB 4,325]

i'll take that part a bit farther. you've seen those lunch trucks in philly? the ones that don't move? and probably couldn't without a tow truck? since they can't move under their own power, and i believe that those guys pay for the spaces they've got......and i think there's places that have those types here in nj......does that qualify as a fixed place of business?

Unless it has a fixed street address, registered in that city, One that mail can be delivered to, which I doubt it does, NO!

[DeerSlayer 241]

Hey if that address is good enough for the bank....

[mipafox 438]

Hey if that address is good enough for the bank....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Lmao!

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Hey if that address is good enough for the bank....

Thanks for posting this!

 

Laptop, car charger and wifi or connect to a 4G phone and you're electronically banking.....

 

Now switch it up and let's say it's a deluxe, bus-sized LOADED Motor home worth more than a million dollars (chassis alone is over $400K stripped).  Does the rich guy have more rights than the trashy white guy living out of his van?  Laws and justice are supposed to be blind, right?  Are supposed to apply to both rich AND poor, right?

 

This is yet another example of nuance and why I say, "SEE THE WHOLE BOARD".........

[jackandjill 683]

Does a  "Motor Home" as defined by NJ DMV stand better chance in this type of situation ?  

[PK90 3,570]

Does a  "Motor Home" as defined by NJ DMV stand better chance in this type of situation ?  

 

Unless it has a fixed street address, registered in that city, One that mail can be delivered to, which I doubt it does, NO!

[jackandjill 683]

PK90, I thought JohnnyB response was with regard to "fixed place of business".   I get that. 

 

I am inquiring about Motor Home being used as exempted location under 2C:39:-6, specially "residence, premises or other land owned or possessed by him,".

[PK90 3,570]

IMO, same answer.