new apt in DE??

[CageFighter 236]

ok, i may have found a place to rent in Delaware. With that being said, can I get a DE ID and buy firearms? I would only buy them on my days i am there.  BTW, I think their CCW permit process is crazy!  I will be residing there Mon-Fri and then NJ on Fri-Mon.  I will have a legitamite lease, etc. Whats your thoughts?  If 

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you are a legitimate dual resident you can buy guns in Delaware.

[PK90 3,570]

You'll regret it, because I can hook you up with a DE dealer.

[CageFighter 236]

paul, can I seriously pull this off?  anyway, please pass on the info.   

[pjd832 146]

as long as you have a govt issued id with a delaware address and photo...you can buy handguns in de...you can buy nj compliant long guns in any state with nj dl/ fid.....obviously any that you bring back to nj would need to be jersey compliant

[PK90 3,570]

OPTIONS:

 

If you get a DE driver's license, more than likely they will take your NJ driver's license. Although, you can still buy a firearm in NJ with your DEDL, a NJ seller may not be comfortable doing the transfer thinking you are not a NJ resident. You can use your current addressed FPID showing your NJ address. You may still be able to obtain PPPs, dependent if your PD asks to see your DL. There should be no issue acquiring firearms in DE.

 

If you keep your NJ driver's license, you will run into similar problems as above, except it will be reversed.

 

The ideal situation for anyone that has residences in multiple states, would be to have a government issued ID with your photo and DOB on it, ie. passport, or retired ID.   Acquiring firearms in those states can be done with that and proof of residence can be established with another government issued document, ie. auto registration, tax bill, etc.

 

IIRC, once you establish residency in DE, to get a CCW, you must jump through hoops, ie. classified ad, forms, etc. Obtaining a DE CCW as a non-resident is easier.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

OPTIONS:

 

 

The ideal situation for anyone that has residences in multiple states, would be to have a government issued ID with your photo and DOB on it, ie. passport, or retired ID.   Acquiring firearms in those states can be done with that and proof of residence can be established with another government issued document, ie. auto registration, tax bill, etc.

 

 

Those aren't going to work in NJ if he gets a DE license since the online NJ NICS system does not have anyway to enter the information from those IDs. The best thing to do if he gets a DE DL is to get a NJ boat license so his "DL" number can be entered into the NICS system when buying in NJ (if he wants to bother with that anymore - but still wouldn't be a bad idea for FTF sales).

[PK90 3,570]

Those aren't going to work in NJ if he gets a DE license since the online NJ NICS system does not have anyway to enter the information from those IDs. The best thing to do if he gets a DE DL is to get a NJ boat license so his "DL" number can be entered into the NICS system when buying in NJ (if he wants to bother with that anymore - but still wouldn't be a bad idea for FTF sales).

That is some BS there. How can the State of NJ make you get a DL or ID from their state? If he has a DEDL and a NJ FPID, why can't he buy a long gun? BTW, he can buy F2F from a non-licensee all day long.

[CageFighter 236]

I would get a state issued gov't ID from Delaware, and keep my NJ license.  

[pjd832 146]

I would get a state issued gov't ID from Delaware, and keep my NJ license.  

thats what i thought you meant...i know a de state issued id would meet the photo and proof of residency requirement in de for de pistol purchases....but i don't know if state id cards are handled like dl's where you cannot possess multiple state dl's.....but if its possible they would definitely be your best option....

[pjd832 146]

OPTIONS:

obtaining a DE CCW as a non-resident is easier.

to the best of my knowledge de does not issue non resident ccdw's

[PK90 3,570]

to the best of my knowledge de does not issue non resident ccdw's

Okay. Then it is that one can carry in DE with another state permit, but if you are a DE resident, you must get a DE permit, as the other state's permit will not be recognized. LINK

[Rob0115 1,105]

Check but I believe since the patriot act you cannot have DL in multiple states. Florida was the last holdout. You can get s state issued ID if you are a dual resident. I did in FL until changing my license.

[pjd832 146]

Okay. Then it is that one can carry in DE with another state permit, but if you are a DE resident, you must get a DE permit, as the other state's permit will not be recognized. LINK

yes sir that is correct

[mipafox 438]

If you reside in Delaware you can buy guns in Delaware as a Delaware resident. You do NOT need a Delaware ID, you can use your NJ ID, but that will likely prove problematic until you find an accommodating FFL. If you find one. I would get a Delaware ID.

[mcm308 0]

I thought the address on DL and FID have to match in NJ to buy? So a DE DL would be no good to buy in NJ?

[PK90 3,570]

I thought the address on DL and FID have to match in NJ to buy? So a DE DL would be no good to buy in NJ?

Nope.

Depends upon seller. Fed Law is met.

[brucin 923]

Not sure about DE but in NY the judge who issued my hand gun permit suggested I get a non driver ID card for purchases. I did not have to surrender my NJ license.

 

I know PA won't give a part time resident a state issued ID. I know someone that tried.

 

You need to check with the DE dnv to see if they do this. It would be the best of both worlds for you.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

That is some BS there. How can the State of NJ make you get a DL or ID from their state? If he has a DEDL and a NJ FPID, why can't he buy a long gun? BTW, he can buy F2F from a non-licensee all day long.

Don't disagree there......

 

The system also doesn't have anyway to enter in an exemption from OGAM for a person who returns a handgun and picks up a different handgun inside of 30 days - (or "shockingly", the OGAM exemption for C&R holders).

 

There is also no way to enter in a UPIN (as found on the 4473) if a customer had one. I only had one customer tell me that he had a UPIN, he said he doesn't use it in NJ because NJ NICS didn't know what to do with it and it slowed his approvals down. He needed to use it in NY and PA or he would get denied.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Ok, I just read for 4473 and so should you. I spoke to an FFL and it seems my interpretation is correct.

 

It seems like I should be able to buy anything while I'm in FL (DE for you).

The explanation of question 13 on page 5 actually states how to select your state of residence. The example given is if you are buying a firearm while at your weekend home in State X then list your address in State X in response to question 2.

 

I read that as if I am at an FFL in Florida with my NJ drivers license it is perfectly legal (seems like required) that I list my address there for question 2 on form 4473.

 

Here's the link and look at item 13 on page 5.

 

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

 

I'm bringing my tax bill, a lease or utility bill works too, my NJ DL and I'm going to purchase a firearm using these instructions.

 

So, you don't need to ditch you NJ DL as it is only used as proof of who you are. You can use several documents to say you live, at least part time, in Delaware.

[PK90 3,570]

From what I hear, the issue is with the state that runs the NICS (POC). They don't allow other state's documents to be used for ID purposes.

[Rob0115 1,105]

The guy near me had no issue with my NJ driver's license.  Some may give you a hard time but according to the form there should be no issue.  Try a birth certificate they're pretty universal.  

[PK90 3,570]

The guy near me had no issue with my NJ driver's license.  Some may give you a hard time but according to the form there should be no issue.  Try a birth certificate they're pretty universal.  

Birth Certificate is no good for ID purposes. You need a government issued document or a combination of government issued documents that has your Photo, DOB, and Address.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I'm going over later using my tax bill and NJ D/L. I'll give a report.

[CageFighter 236]

please do!   

[Rob0115 1,105]

I had a copy of my tax bill and a utility bill because I didn't know which was better. Turns out they were fine with either and used my NJ d/l and bought a long gun and a pistol. I didn't get my CWL yet so there's a three day wait for the pistol.

 

Read the form if you are multi state resident you claim the residence of the state you are standing in at that time. If you have a lease in Delaware and are in Delaware to purchase a firearm that's what you put in form 4473. Because you don't have a state ID from Delaware you need to prove residence another way, thus a utility bill, rental agreement, tax bill, deed, mortgage, etc. with any of those docs you prove residence. The drivers license proves identity.

 

When my CWL is done I won't have to wait for my pistols. I'm going to change my D/L next week so my CWL is then instate which means PA carry is legal for me. I go to PA now and again and my daughter is at PSU.

[PK90 3,570]

Your documents must be Government issued. I doubt that the government issues mortgages, provides utilities, or rents apartments.

 

Stick with your tax bill or auto registration.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

[Rob0115 1,105]

Two different FFL's in the area gave me the same response and referred my to ATF form 4473 page 5 for the explanation.  One of the two sold me guns.  I established my identity with NJ government issued drivers license and I established that I in fact resided in FL with my tax bill (which he didn't seem to care to much about).  I provided my FL address for the NICS check and on form 4473 in accordance with the instructions on page 5 middle of the page.  

 

Here is the exact text cut and paste:

 

Question 13.  State of Residence:  The State in which an individual resides.

An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the

intention of making a home in that State.  If an individual is a member of the 

Armed Forces on active duty, his or her State of residence also is the State in

which his or her permanent duty station is located.

 

If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your

current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a

firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your

address in State X in response to question 2.)

 

I don't see the confusion--I live in two places.  When I am in Florida and want to purchase guns I put my address in Florida, which is a home that I own and reside at part time, as my address at that time.  I'm back in NJ today and if I were to buy a gun I'd put my address in NJ on the form and show them my DL and FID.  

 

 

What it doesn't address is that if I lease my weekend home or other residence how that is treated.  It could get a bit odd because if I'm on vacation in Tennessee renting a cabin for two weeks am I resident?  The explanation doesn't give an detail for a renter.  Does it have to be an annual lease?  I don't know because it only address my home.  However, it doesn't say anywhere I have to own the home.  I'd call an FFL in DE and ask them how they'd treat you.   I know how I was treated in FL and it worked out fine.  

[GRIZ 3,369]

Robo, you are correct with your interpretation of dual residency.

 

If you are renting a cabin for two weeks you are not a dual resident as you have no "intention of making a home" in that state.

 

BTW there may be a provision for in the Patriot Act prohibiting you from having a drivers license in more than one state but that started back in the 80s or 90s to prevent truck drivers from having multiple licenses.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Florida banned multiple licenses in 2010. I spoke to someone at the tax office and he explained it to me. I'm changing mine when I go back down next week. I just haven't had time.

 

Btw, my house is for sale and really nice if anyone wants it