new apt in DE??

[PK90 3,570]

You're preaching to the choir Rob0115. Or at least one member. However, once you give up your NJDL, you will have an issue acquiring firearms while in NJ.

[Rob0115 1,105]

You're preaching to the choir Rob0115. Or at least one member. However, once you give up your NJDL, you will have an issue acquiring firearms while in NJ.

Believe me I won't be looking to acquire any more neutered firearms in NJ. I'll only be coming back to visit family once I sell my house.

[Handyman 5,682]

I moved to Missouri for a year and they took my Jersey license. When I came back to Jersey I reported my license lost and they gave me a new card. I checked the box asking I I had a license elsewhere but no one said anything.

[CageFighter 236]

since DE is  not as gun friendly as PA, I have decided to change my location of apt search.  I have an appt with the leasing office tomorrow.

[Rob0115 1,105]

I know you know this but I feel like I have to say it.  Make sure any firearm you plan to return to your primary residence with is NJ compliant.  

[mipafox 438]

since DE is  not as gun friendly as PA, I have decided to change my location of apt search. I have an appt with the leasing office tomorrow.

You can do anything in DE you can do in PA, except MGs and cans. It's just more of a pain. I can't live without cans, but if it doesn't matter to you, think more about your commute and cost of living.

 

Moving out of Jersey is one thing. Screwing yourself for slightly easier access to carry and firearms is quite another.

 

You could probably also start an LLC in PA to buy cans. I don't know what it would take. But I know this. If I needed an address and an LLC in NJ to get an NJ carry permit, I would do it before the end of the week.

[CageFighter 236]

anyone know if DE recognizes non-resident CCW permits?  I have VA, AZ, FL & UT.  

[TulsaJohn 1]

anyone know if DE recognizes non-resident CCW permits?  I have VA, AZ, FL & UT.  

 

Your Non Res AZ, FL, and UT are good in DE..... VA is not. 

[CageFighter 236]

Your Non Res AZ, FL, and UT are good in DE..... VA is not. 

 

NICE!!!

[Rob0115 1,105]

One last item on the 4473. It appears you do not need to use a drivers license along with your FID. if you look at the explanation of question 20b it says you can use something other than a drivers license. It gives the example of a multi state resident again the explanation. I am assuming a passport because it has a photo, address, dob and is government issued would suffice.

 

Any thoughts on that?

[PK90 3,570]

Passport and auto registration, etc. is sufficient for Federal Law.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

One last item on the 4473. It appears you do not need to use a drivers license along with your FID. if you look at the explanation of question 20b it says you can use something other than a drivers license. It gives the example of a multi state resident again the explanation. I am assuming a passport because it has a photo, address, dob and is government issued would suffice.

 

Any thoughts on that?

The problem in NJ is that the computer system we enter NICS checks into in NJ requires a DL number to process a NICS check. If someone doesn't have a DL they could get a non driver ID which would have the necessary number on it. All the other ID methods the feds say is OK will not work in the NJ system.

[PK90 3,570]

The problem in NJ is that the computer system we enter NICS checks into in NJ requires a DL number to process a NICS check. If someone doesn't have a DL they could get a non driver ID which would have the necessary number on it. All the other ID methods the feds say is OK will not work in the NJ system.

 

What if someone never had a DL or ID? What if someone lived in PA and had a PA DL and a NJ FPID. He can't buy a long gun from a dealer? There must be a "go around" method. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

The problem in NJ is that the computer system we enter NICS checks into in NJ requires a DL number to process a NICS check. If someone doesn't have a DL they could get a non driver ID which would have the necessary number on it. All the other ID methods the feds say is OK will not work in the NJ system.

Check your systems, DL is not required.  Only those with a red asterisk next to them, DL does not.  

[Rob0115 1,105]

I just hung up with the NJSP firearms investigation unit.  They said a D/L is not required but any government issued ID with a photo, DOB and address is acceptable, a passport was the example.  They said they can't force an FFL to sell the gun if you don't have a D/L but that's a business practice and not the law.  I was also told that my out of state drivers license is acceptable if I have an NJ FID and in fact make residence at the address on the FID.  There is no D/L requirement on NICS according to the NJSP FIU and I know that because I've seen the NICS computer screen and there is no * next to the field that asks for D/L.  

 

The only reason you need photo ID is to prove who you are and not where you live.  If you qualified for an NJ FID it doesn't matter that your alternate form of ID has a different address.  It is however not acceptable to have an FID with an address where you do not live.  

 

Form 4473 explicitly addresses multi-state residents in the explanation of 20(b).  They are eligible to buy firearms in any state where they have residence.  

 

Like most things these details are little understood even by the people that are selling guns.  I think some of it is fear based on retailing guns in NJ and the onerous laws.  However, I've seen people be told that they have to have a D/L that matches the address on the FID and that is just not true.  The address on the FID does have to be a place where you reside but your form of personal ID need not match it.  

 

I'd suggest that the best way to get to the bottom of things is to call the authority in the state that you reside where you wish to acquire firearms.  I have spoken to the NJSP for NJ address and the Florida Division of Agriculture for my Florida address.  They both agreed that my interpretation of form 4473 is correct and that my D/L can be from any state as long as I have an acceptable form of proof that I have residence in the state that I am purchasing in.  

[mipafox 438]

This was explained years ago.

 

There is very weak generational accumulation of knowledge here.

[Rob0115 1,105]

This was explained years ago. There is very weak generational accumulation of knowledge here.

There still seems to be confusion.  I've seen this happen in stores where the salesperson has told people they can't sell them the gun because their D/L has a different address than their FID.  And based on most of this thread it is a community misunderstanding as well.  

[PK90 3,570]

I used to laugh at all the dealers that make up their own rules which restrict their sales.

DL must match FPID, one must show FPID to hold gun, gun with mags over 15 rounds is illegal, dealer can not possess magazines over 15 rounds, etc.

The more people they turn away, the more that came to me to buy.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

What if someone never had a DL or ID? What if someone lived in PA and had a PA DL and a NJ FPID. He can't buy a long gun from a dealer? There must be a "go around" method. 

I haven't yet come across an out of state resident with a NJ FPID card. I'd be more than willing to try the sale if everything was in order. I suppose an out of state DL number could be entered into the NJ NICS system. The issue is with alternate IDs, there is now way to enter those into the system. I would need to call the NICS unit to see how that would get done, but getting answers from them on issues that are beyond the normal scope of what they deal with on a regular basis is "challenging".

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

I just hung up with the NJSP firearms investigation unit.  They said a D/L is not required but any government issued ID with a photo, DOB and address is acceptable, a passport was the example.  They said they can't force an FFL to sell the gun if you don't have a D/L but that's a business practice and not the law.  I was also told that my out of state drivers license is acceptable if I have an NJ FID and in fact make residence at the address on the FID.  There is no D/L requirement on NICS according to the NJSP FIU and I know that because I've seen the NICS computer screen and there is no * next to the field that asks for D/L.  

 

The only reason you need photo ID is to prove who you are and not where you live.  If you qualified for an NJ FID it doesn't matter that your alternate form of ID has a different address.  It is however not acceptable to have an FID with an address where you do not live.  

 

Form 4473 explicitly addresses multi-state residents in the explanation of 20(b).  They are eligible to buy firearms in any state where they have residence.  

 

Like most things these details are little understood even by the people that are selling guns.  I think some of it is fear based on retailing guns in NJ and the onerous laws.  However, I've seen people be told that they have to have a D/L that matches the address on the FID and that is just not true.  The address on the FID does have to be a place where you reside but your form of personal ID need not match it.  

 

I'd suggest that the best way to get to the bottom of things is to call the authority in the state that you reside where you wish to acquire firearms.  I have spoken to the NJSP for NJ address and the Florida Division of Agriculture for my Florida address.  They both agreed that my interpretation of form 4473 is correct and that my D/L can be from any state as long as I have an acceptable form of proof that I have residence in the state that I am purchasing in.  

Passports do not have addresses on them, so some other government issued proof of residency would be necessary.

 

I have no problem doing a transfer if all the necessary proof, in whatever form, is provided to me. The problem is that the NJ NICS system does not have any way to enter in alternate forms of ID. I haven't had anyone try so far, so whether the NICS would be approved without a DL or non driver ID number (issued by the NJ MVC) I don't know. What I do know is that I had a guy get put in "Deficient" because his DL was suspended for non payment of a ticket (turned out to be a court clerical error and not his fault), NICS claimed his ID was not valid because it was suspended. NICS suggested he get a non driver ID from NJ MVC and he would be approved.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Passports do not have addresses on them, so some other government issued proof of residency would be necessary.

 

I have no problem doing a transfer if all the necessary proof, in whatever form, is provided to me. The problem is that the NJ NICS system does not have any way to enter in alternate forms of ID. I haven't had anyone try so far, so whether the NICS would be approved without a DL or non driver ID number (issued by the NJ MVC) I don't know. What I do know is that I had a guy get put in "Deficient" because his DL was suspended for non payment of a ticket (turned out to be a court clerical error and not his fault), NICS claimed his ID was not valid because it was suspended. NICS suggested he get a non driver ID from NJ MVC and he would be approved.

The NICS system field for d/l is optional. He got flagged because you used it and it happened to be suspended. A suspended license can't be used for ID. Look at the screen tomorrow and tell me if there's an asterisk? Look at the page in the top right and it says (*) required. BTW, in NJ , or any other state, my ID address does not have to match my FID address. So if I were to give you my NJ FID and my FL d/l that is valid. My D/L establishes my identity and the FID my ability to purchase firearms or ammo. My FID also has my NJ address, in other states and maybe even NJ another proof of residency may be needed like a utility bill or tax bill. I'm not sure it necessary because of the FID.

 

Form 4473, where you must list the ID, says it all in section 20a and 20b. It discusses using s drivers license from state x for ID and another document that shows residency in state y if trying to purchase a hand gun in state y (such as a tax document).

 

You're a dealer so if I were I'd get clarity from the NJSP FIU as I did. Also, read the explanatory pages of form 4473 and it's all on there including alternate ID and how people with multiple states of residence are legal to buy a gun within any state they reside.

[Jfoster99 80]

Keep your Resident NJ FID, and get you DE drivers... You will have to turn in you NJ drivers License.....but you can get a NJ boat Lic with your NJ address on it. It look just like a Drivers Lic. The boat Lic number will be your old NJ driver Lic number so it will process thru the NJ Nics system without issue... Now you don't have to carry around tax bills or even tell the NJ FFL you have a DE driver Lic or they you are a dual resident, ect, ect.

 

It is very handy to be able to prove NJ residency while I have a FL drivers Lic without raising eyebrows. County Park facilities is just one example. Ordering stuff online to be shipped to either home requires a matching drivers/boat Lic. I use the appropriate one when needed is a second.

 

Funny story ... I accidentally used my boat Lic to rent a car at Enterprise. That didn't even notice.

 

You can NOT get a NJ non driver ID if you have an out of state Lic. That is a no, no... But the boat Lic is effectively the same thing.

 

Lastly, if national reciprocity ever goes thru.... You will be good to go for CCW in NJ ( as a Delaware resident).

 

[PK90 3,570]

How do you get a boat license? Is there a test? I used to have an endorsement on my license, but they took it off.

[Rob0115 1,105]

It's unnecessary.

[PK90 3,570]

It's unnecessary.

It is for some.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[Rob0115 1,105]

It is for some.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

In NJ it's totally necessary to drive a boat. It came into to law a few years back. It used to be if you were born before 77 you didn't need to get a boat license. it's probably a good thing given the number of accidents involving boats.

[Jfoster99 80]

PK90

You can take an online course and then a proctored exam or take the class/test. It was two nights 4 hours each if I remember correctly. Exam was a joke if u sit thru the class.

 

Rob0115

Not sure if you meant a. Boat Lic was unnecessary for driving a. Boat or purchasing firearms.

 

As for purchasing firearms 5of5 FFL's in my area refused to sell to me without a DL or state issues non drive ID.... period. Did not even want to discuss it. Now i don't even mention I'm a dual resident...

 

[Rob0115 1,105]

I meant it was unnecessary for firearms. The FFLs are wrong and they should read form 4473 or call the NJSP FIU. The only place your ID needs to be recorded is in form 4473 and it is not required on the web page for a NICS check.

 

I'm going to speak to the my local PD in NJ to see if they'll give me P2P without an NJ DL.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

The NICS system field for d/l is optional. He got flagged because you used it and it happened to be suspended. A suspended license can't be used for ID. Look at the screen tomorrow and tell me if there's an asterisk? Look at the page in the top right and it says (*) required. BTW, in NJ , or any other state, my ID address does not have to match my FID address. So if I were to give you my NJ FID and my FL d/l that is valid. My D/L establishes my identity and the FID my ability to purchase firearms or ammo. My FID also has my NJ address, in other states and maybe even NJ another proof of residency may be needed like a utility bill or tax bill. I'm not sure it necessary because of the FID.

 

Form 4473, where you must list the ID, says it all in section 20a and 20b. It discusses using s drivers license from state x for ID and another document that shows residency in state y if trying to purchase a hand gun in state y (such as a tax document).

 

You're a dealer so if I were I'd get clarity from the NJSP FIU as I did. Also, read the explanatory pages of form 4473 and it's all on there including alternate ID and how people with multiple states of residence are legal to buy a gun within any state they reside.

I've never had someone try to use an out of state DL, so I don't know how that would go over with NJ NICS. Your assessment of the rules is not wrong, the question is will NJ NICS approve a check without a NJ DL/boat/non driver ID number? Just because it's allowed under federal law doesn't mean NJ will approve the check, So, since I haven't tried, I don't know.

[PK90 3,570]

Where is Steve? I have never done an online NJ check.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.