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AlDente67

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I dont even.... how? put into perspective, a 9mm case glides into a 40case pretty snug but , how did it even chamber?

It never chambered a single round! Obviously a .40 cal round will not fit in a 9mm chamber! The brass was hanging up on the feed ramp but fit in the magazine easily!

It was simply a dumb mistake! I don't spend a lot of time at the range, OBVIOUSLY! I I need to find a range near Deptford NJ. Other than Bob's Little Sport Shop!!!!!!

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I beg to differ Newtonian.  'Cept for some rare exceptions (I believe Kimber .45's may be one, and there are others), all guns need routine maintenance / cleaning prior to shooting the very first time.  Merely to remove the packing grease and fouling left-over from PROOF-Firing (so you don't make CEMENT by adding layers of fouling to the packing grease).  Especially semi-auto .22's with new, stiff springs to guard against a steady diet of CCI Stingers.  It's been that way since Cosmoline was invented.  Asking a Manufacturer to label it's product with a sign that says, "This won't work right if you don't clean me" is akin to printing on a McDonalds coffee cup, "DANGER---COFFEE MAY BE HOT AND BURN YOUR CROTCH"!  

 

I have a friend who had to have a top-of-the-line .38 Super Model 2011 Race Gun with a comp and dot sight.  He's a millionaire several times over, owns over 100 guns and had to have the most expensive model that STI made, so he ordered one through a local FFL.  These guns are VERY tight and require a break-in period to loosen them up and let friction shave some material from the slide and frame.  Without asking, he mail-orders a CASE of Winchester .38 Super in the white box.  Loads mags, fires gun, gun goes BANG but...gun NO cycle!  Slide doesn't even budge!  WHY you ask?  Because he didn't listen to the FFL who told him to buy .38 Super +P+ to break-in his new Race Gun.  Because the comp actually WORKS and does the job its' supposed to (blow hot gases needed to make action cycle upward immediately after round leaves barrel).  So he had to sell a CASE of .38 Super (or EAT IT) because he KNEW everything about guns.........

 

You'd be surprised to learn how much effort goes into writing and designing Instruction Manuals (for firearms) that never get read..... 

If it's a known problem, and it is with the Storm, they should either prepare their products differently or include a gentle reminder to clean the gun thoroughly before using it. In which case I would buy another gun. I do not think that would be unduly burdensome on a company whose products sell in the $450-$1000 range. 

 

Imagine a car whose breaks fail if you don't change the fluid before use, or a toaster oven that burns your house down unless you do something or other, like run it at 200 degrees for an hour. Should they tell you or just let your house burn down as part of doing business?

 

These are guns, you know, which people use to defend themselves 100s of times per day. Seems like a pretty critical issue to me.

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If it's a known problem, and it is with the Storm, they should either prepare their products differently or include a gentle reminder to clean the gun thoroughly before using it. In which case I would buy another gun. I do not think that would be unduly burdensome on a company whose products sell in the $450-$1000 range. 

 

Imagine a car whose breaks fail if you don't change the fluid before use, or a toaster oven that burns your house down unless you do something or other, like run it at 200 degrees for an hour. Should they tell you or just let your house burn down as part of doing business?

 

These are guns, you know, which people use to defend themselves 100s of times per day. Seems like a pretty critical issue to me.

 

Most companies cover this "gentle reminder" in the Instruction manual packed with the gun (that guys don't read because they KNOW everything).  Interestingly enough, over my 44 years of shooting experiences, most of the questions I get about when to clean come from women who aren't afraid to lose their "Man Card" if they ask a routine / mundane question.

 

Let's examine your car analogy for a moment.  Guns are mechanical.  Just like cars that need "prepped" for a "Spot Delivery" at a new car Dealer (fluid level check, tire pressure check, brake check, leak check, serpentine belt check, remove plastic from seats, remove plastic from seat belts and steering wheel, etc., etc., etc.  They even wash it for you and dry it while the Salesman is trying to find the 2nd set of keys.  Nobody delivers a car to you in a cardboard box.  Why is that?  Bullets travel faster than cars.  Cars have bumpers if you screw-up and hit something.  Often a car requires a brake-in period where you're not supposed to max-out the RPM's or SLAM on the brakes!  You're told all of this during your delivery phase of the purchase (or it's IN THE MANUAL).  

 

Newbies are impressed by looks of the guns they buy, regardless of whether or not they've even tried a friend's or rented the same model to ascertain whether or not they can even hit the broad side of a barn with it FIRST!  We see it here all of the time with comments like "that gun is SEXY".  It's these same sexy guns that can't shoot out-of-the-box that wind-up on the for sale pages.  With a half-assed cleaning job (after the fact) and less than 100 rounds through them.  Pages and pages of guns.  Lots are the SAME MODEL.  Why is THAT?

 

The design and tolerances of particular guns make some tighter and more accurate than others.  A '67 Rambler is NOT and never will be a Ferrari.  This same tolerance can make them finicky with ammo, spring changes, and cleaning requirements.  Part of the break-in on a pistol is to allow a certain amount of wear to take place so as to prevent problems down the road.  Consult your Instruction manual packed with your mechanical, spring-driven device to ascertain the correct plan of action for each piece as you add it to your collection.  And maybe, just MAYBE, buy your collection from a FFL who will give you "ol'-fashioned CUSTOMER SERVICE" and tell you what to do with your new purchase.  BEFORE IT STOVE-PIPES on the first box of ammo..........

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I've never had a single issue with my PX4 compact, actually this is the first i've heard of this. Even after a few rounds wouldn't you basically have removed most of oil/grease. All my Berettas didnt exactly come gouped up, it actually seemed like they had just some standard oil on them.

Nope, mine have all had packing grease on them.  It definitely de-gunked after a good clean and lube.  Even after a couple hundred rounds, it still would hang up and FTF on me.

 

I cleaned my Beretta Nano right away when I got it and had no issues.

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Most companies cover this "gentle reminder" in the Instruction manual packed with the gun (that guys don't read because they KNOW everything).  Interestingly enough, over my 44 years of shooting experiences, most of the questions I get about when to clean come from women who aren't afraid to lose their "Man Card" if they ask a routine / mundane question.

 

Let's examine your car analogy for a moment.  Guns are mechanical.  Just like cars that need "prepped" for a "Spot Delivery" at a new car Dealer (fluid level check, tire pressure check, brake check, leak check, serpentine belt check, remove plastic from seats, remove plastic from seat belts and steering wheel, etc., etc., etc.  They even wash it for you and dry it while the Salesman is trying to find the 2nd set of keys.  Nobody delivers a car to you in a cardboard box.  Why is that?  Bullets travel faster than cars.  Cars have bumpers if you screw-up and hit something.  Often a car requires a brake-in period where you're not supposed to max-out the RPM's or SLAM on the brakes!  You're told all of this during your delivery phase of the purchase (or it's IN THE MANUAL).  

 

Newbies are impressed by looks of the guns they buy, regardless of whether or not they've even tried a friend's or rented the same model to ascertain whether or not they can even hit the broad side of a barn with it FIRST!  We see it here all of the time with comments like "that gun is SEXY".  It's these same sexy guns that can't shoot out-of-the-box that wind-up on the for sale pages.  With a half-assed cleaning job (after the fact) and less than 100 rounds through them.  Pages and pages of guns.  Lots are the SAME MODEL.  Why is THAT?

 

The design and tolerances of particular guns make some tighter and more accurate than others.  A '67 Rambler is NOT and never will be a Ferrari.  This same tolerance can make them finicky with ammo, spring changes, and cleaning requirements.  Part of the break-in on a pistol is to allow a certain amount of wear to take place so as to prevent problems down the road.  Consult your Instruction manual packed with your mechanical, spring-driven device to ascertain the correct plan of action for each piece as you add it to your collection.  And maybe, just MAYBE, buy your collection from a FFL who will give you "ol'-fashioned CUSTOMER SERVICE" and tell you what to do with your new purchase.  BEFORE IT STOVE-PIPES on the first box of ammo..........

Not sure why you're presuming I think I know it all. I've stated numerous times that I'm a novice. 

 

Do you mean to say that a car won't drive if they don't remove the plastic from the seats? The fluids analogy, well maybe. But everyone knows a car needs oil, gasoline, etc. 

 

 

Look all I'm saying is I never heard or read anywhere that semi-autos needed a thorough cleaning before the first use. I pulled the slide off the Beretta and it looked lubed. I didn't realize that that shiny fluid wasn't really oil but maple syrup. 

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Not sure why you're presuming I think I know it all. I've stated numerous times that I'm a novice. 

 

Do you mean to say that a car won't drive if they don't remove the plastic from the seats? The fluids analogy, well maybe. But everyone knows a car needs oil, gasoline, etc. 

 

 

Look all I'm saying is I never heard or read anywhere that semi-autos needed a thorough cleaning before the first use. I pulled the slide off the Beretta and it looked lubed. I didn't realize that that shiny fluid wasn't really oil but maple syrup. 

 

I'm sorry.  I can't seem to keep track of the experience levels of folks here.  I give folks with thousands of posts credit for "being around guns a great while" perhaps more than I should.  Hell, you don't even need to actually OWN guns to be a member here, lol.  So please forgive me if I misjudged your experience level.  And let's get to the heart of the matter:

 

Obviously the car will "drive" with all of the plastic on the seats and the pistol will "chamber rounds" with the preservative/sludge from the factory.  Things will get interesting once both mechanical devices are tested under "normal" operating conditions.  Make a turn at speed with the new car and your a$$ will slide out of the seat.  Fire the chambered round and watch the stove-pipe...  I guess we can both agree that we understand my analogy, so I won't keep mentioning it.

 

FWIW your maple syrup analogy is a good one, because cold weather makes the packing grease even more untenable.  Often the difference on whether or not an out-of-the-box uncleaned pistol will function is the variable of how long it was stored in a cold environment prior to firing the first mag of ammo.  So the amount of time your gun bag was in your cars' COLD trunk en-route to the Range matters...  Frozen sludge often prevents "normal" operation.  In fact, sometimes in some extreme climates, guns are fired with little or NO lube at all so they will function.  Much like the shutters of Nikons and Hasselblads that NASA ordered for Space Missions decades ago (built special-order with NO lube what-so-ever), so too does the 10th Mountain Division in Fort Drum, NY prepare to fight winter battles on frozen tundra.  Our History is replete with examples of very expensive mechanical devices that need deliberate attention prior to being put into service.  Some of this attention is as simple as soaking metal parts in gasoline to remove all lube and then re-assembling (with or w/o applying a temperature-specific lube specifically designed for the intended use).

 

I don't own any Beretta pistols, so I don't have any of their Instruction manuals.  If when reading yours, you discover no mention of having to clean-out packing grease, you may wish to write a note to Beretta and explain why it's important for them to re-evaluate what gets printed in their Instruction manuals.

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I'm sorry.  I can't seem to keep track of the experience levels of folks here.  I give folks with thousands of posts credit for "being around guns a great while" perhaps more than I should.  Hell, you don't even need to actually OWN guns to be a member here, lol.  So please forgive me if I misjudged your experience level.  And let's get to the heart of the matter:

 

Obviously the car will "drive" with all of the plastic on the seats and the pistol will "chamber rounds" with the preservative/sludge from the factory.  Things will get interesting once both mechanical devices are tested under "normal" operating conditions.  Make a turn at speed with the new car and your a$$ will slide out of the seat.  Fire the chambered round and watch the stove-pipe...  I guess we can both agree that we understand my analogy, so I won't keep mentioning it.

 

 

I don't own any Beretta pistols, so I don't have any of their Instruction manuals.  If when reading yours, you discover no mention of having to clean-out packing grease, you may wish to write a note to Beretta and explain why it's important for them to re-evaluate what gets printed in their Instruction manuals.

NP. Next time I'm in the storage area I'll check the manual that I never read in the first place and report back  :)

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It never chambered a single round! Obviously a .40 cal round will not fit in a 9mm chamber! The brass was hanging up on the feed ramp but fit in the magazine easily!

It was simply a dumb mistake! I don't spend a lot of time at the range, OBVIOUSLY! I I need to find a range near Deptford NJ. Other than Bob's Little Sport Shop!!!!!!

So then it didn't Stove pipe. I think you don't understand the terminology..

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

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That was a failure to feed then.  Stovepipe is a failure to eject fully - It extracts the case from the chamber, but doesn't throw it out enough for the case to clear the action, and gets stuck inside.

 

Failure to Feed:

Beretta-Pico-Failure-to-Feed.jpg

 

Failure to Eject (Stovepipe):

Failure_to_eject_(FTE),_firearm.jpg

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NP. Next time I'm in the storage area I'll check the manual that I never read in the first place and report back :)

So, the base assumption was 100% correct. You didn't even RTFM. You're intelligent enough to know what happens when you assume. :facepalm:

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That was a failure to feed then.  Stovepipe is a failure to eject fully - It extracts the case from the chamber, but doesn't throw it out enough for the case to clear the action, and gets stuck inside.

 

Failure to Feed:

Beretta-Pico-Failure-to-Feed.jpg

 

Failure to Eject (Stovepipe):

Failure_to_eject_(FTE),_firearm.jpg

The top picture. Failure to feed! That's what happens when you put .40 S&W in your 9mm!!! Damn stuff just won't fit in the chamber!

 

BTW, Thanks for the lesson! I admit I still have a lot to learn. I never meant to put 40s in my 9mm. I just grabbed the wrong rounds

and they did fit in the magazine. I will never make that mistake again! Live and learn!!! I had just gotten my Sig P229 Elite .40 cal. Stainless and it was the first time I

ever had .40 cal round in my range bag!

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My new VP9 was so full of grease out of the box, it looked like it just left a bath house in San Francisco! As per the manual, ( and another member here's ) recommendation before I took it to the range. I completely stripped the gun, cleaned the hell out of it. Then put it through a dry fire break in exercise as per H&K's recommendation in the manual. Gun worked flawlessly first time out. After I was done with the first session (approximately 100 rds) there was still lube spraying out of the slide, all over the gun. Crazy how much they pack in there when new.

 

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My new VP9 was so full of grease out of the box, it looked like it just left a bath house in San Francisco! As per the manual, ( and another member here's ) recommendation before I took it to the range. I completely stripped the gun, cleaned the hell out of it. Then put it through a dry fire break in exercise as per H&K's recommendation in the manual. Gun worked flawlessly first time out. After I was done with the first session (approximately 100 rds) there was still lube spraying out of the slide, all over the gun. Crazy how much they pack in there when new.

^^^^^THIS is exactly why I wrote what I did.  Thanks DeerSlayer for the first-person story about reading the manual that comes with the gun.

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^^^^^THIS is exactly why I wrote what I did. Thanks DeerSlayer for the first-person story about reading the manual that comes with the gun.

Once we think we know everything, we can't be taught. Unless your the engineer that designed the gun, read the fucking manual! Lol...

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So, the base assumption was 100% correct. You didn't even RTFM. You're intelligent enough to know what happens when you assume. :facepalm:

You can find the manual here. Nothing about cleaning it out of the box. 

 

Except for takedown, a few tips on using the decocker, and warning against dry firing w/out snap caps the manual is mostly air.

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Newtonian,

 

Thanks for posting the hot link to the manual.  I read all 48 pages from cover-to-cover and come-up with the same conclusion you just did and wrote about above.  

 

Spurned by this realization, I phoned Beretta at 1-800-Beretta and I just spoke to Eric at Beretta USA.  He's a Tech Rep and knows the product line quite well.  He informed me that all Beretta products are shipped with packing grease that requires cleaning PRIOR to any usage.  He also stated that you have an older manual w/o any orange addendum which brings to bare scrutiny about this very issue.  So you can call Beretta for a new manual w/ the addendum.  Eric said they get so many calls per day because of stove-piping issues with Newbies shooting thru the packing grease, that Beretta USA has convinced Beretta-Italy to once again include the orange addendum with every manual in every box that guns are shipped in.  He also stated that it's sheer luck-of-the-draw on whether or not you'll have stove-pipping w/o removing the packing grease first and then applying a THIN coat of lube for any break-in period.  When I told him of my field stripping and de-gunking procedure on a brand-new gun he gave my kudos on employing the proper technique so as to completely avoid any cycling issues.  He also wanted me to pass along to you a thank-you for buying Beretta products.

 

Mystery SOLVED (by a Fudd who's Dad taught him how to clean Cosmoline off of gun parts in gasoline).......

 

So how can we get this little story pinned to where it will do the most good?

 

Rosey

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Mystery SOLVED (by a Fudd who's Dad taught him how to clean Cosmoline off of gun parts in gasoline).......

 

So how can we get this little story pinned to where it will do the most good?

 

Rosey

Thanks. I have five Mosins that required complete disassembly and cosmo removal. Everybody knows you have to take that gunk off. Even if you can't see it 1/4 inch thick every third Mosin video teaches the "best" way to remove arsenal grease. This is an entirely different issue bordering on negligence. Not to beat a dead horse but nobody was born knowing that Beretta firearms (but not apparently at least some others) require a deep cleaning before use. None of my revolvers did (I realize totally different mechanisms, but why not add protective gunk to them as well?). My buckmark also had stovepipe issues but those have persisted after 10 cleanings. I've watched 100s of gun videos, including many on cleaning and maintenance, and never once did the guy come on and say "It's always a good idea to clean a semi-auto thoroughly before first use." 

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Thanks. I have five Mosins that required complete disassembly and cosmo removal. Everybody knows you have to take that gunk off. Even if you can't see it 1/4 inch thick every third Mosin video teaches the "best" way to remove arsenal grease. This is an entirely different issue bordering on negligence. Not to beat a dead horse but nobody was born knowing that Beretta firearms (but not apparently at least some others) require a deep cleaning before use. None of my revolvers did (I realize totally different mechanisms, but why not add protective gunk to them as well?). My buckmark also had stovepipe issues but those have persisted after 10 cleanings. I've watched 100s of gun videos, including many on cleaning and maintenance, and never once did the guy come on and say "It's always a good idea to clean a semi-auto thoroughly before first use." 

 

You're welcome!  As far as videos, I always take them with a grain of salt.  There are those that SHOOT and then there's those that make videos.  I SHOOT, lol!  FWIW I've watched Hicock 45's videos and he has recommended de-greasing and a light lube prior to shooting the first time.  Especially with black powder revolvers and their nipples.

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Thanks. I have five Mosins that required complete disassembly and cosmo removal. Everybody knows you have to take that gunk off. Even if you can't see it 1/4 inch thick every third Mosin video teaches the "best" way to remove arsenal grease. This is an entirely different issue bordering on negligence. Not to beat a dead horse but nobody was born knowing that Beretta firearms (but not apparently at least some others) require a deep cleaning before use. None of my revolvers did (I realize totally different mechanisms, but why not add protective gunk to them as well?). My buckmark also had stovepipe issues but those have persisted after 10 cleanings. I've watched 100s of gun videos, including many on cleaning and maintenance, and never once did the guy come on and say "It's always a good idea to clean a semi-auto thoroughly before first use." 

 

For what its worth my PX4 compact (9mm) and 92FS both ran about 300 rounds each before I cleaned them. Not a single failure of any kind with either gun in their lifetime with over 3k rounds split between the two. The PX4 has been especially filthy at times and keeps going. Both were made in Italy, perhaps they dont gunk them up as much as US models?

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