Recent Ruling from Appellate Court on Knife possesion

[Halflife 0]

Hi guys,

 

This is a very recent ruling from the Appellate court, dealing directly with knife possession. It is a long read but perhaps the single best source of information I have read regarding the laws and how the court will act with knife possession.

 

It uses case law from many old familiar cases, and proves that those are still relevant today.

 

Happy Reading

 

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-unpublished/2015/a4182-13.html

[Tack Tickle 0]

I'll make it easy for everyone... This is the most important part of the read.

 

 

 

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d) addresses "'the situation in which someone who has not yet formed an intent to use an object as a weapon possesses it under circumstances in which it is likely to be so used,'" namely "circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as those objects may have." State v. Blaine, 221 N.J. Super. 66, 69-70 (App. Div. 1987) (quoting State v. Lee, 96 N.J. 156, 161 (1984)).

 

The "'surrounding circumstances such as the size, shape and condition of the knife, the nature of its concealment, the time, place and actions of the carrier when found in his possession'" can "indicate that possession of a knife may be 'not manifestly appropriate' for its lawful use." Lee, supra, 96 N.J. at 162 (quoting State v. Green, 62 N.J. 547, 560 (1973)).

 

In order to sustain a conviction for N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d), the State must prove that the folding knife was possessed under such circumstances that a reasonable person would recognize beyond a reasonable doubt that it was likely to be used as a weapon; in other words, under circumstances where it posed a likely threat of harm to others or a likely threat of damage to property. See State ex rel. G.C., 179 N.J. 475, 483-84 (2004).

[checko 180]

So in essence, it's legal until a reasonable person or 12, would believe that it was intended on being used as a weapon.

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

 

[Newtonian 453]

I'll make it easy for everyone... This is the most important part of the read.

 

 

 

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d) addresses "'the situation in which someone who has not yet formed an intent to use an object as a weapon possesses it under circumstances in which it is likely to be so used,'" namely "circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as those objects may have." State v. Blaine, 221 N.J. Super. 66, 69-70 (App. Div. 1987) (quoting State v. Lee, 96 N.J. 156, 161 (1984)).

 

The "'surrounding circumstances such as the size, shape and condition of the knife, the nature of its concealment, the time, place and actions of the carrier when found in his possession'" can "indicate that possession of a knife may be 'not manifestly appropriate' for its lawful use." Lee, supra, 96 N.J. at 162 (quoting State v. Green, 62 N.J. 547, 560 (1973)).

 

In order to sustain a conviction for N.J.S.A. 2C:39-5(d), the State must prove that the folding knife was possessed under such circumstances that a reasonable person would recognize beyond a reasonable doubt that it was likely to be used as a weapon; in other words, under circumstances where it posed a likely threat of harm to others or a likely threat of damage to property. See State ex rel. G.C., 179 N.J. 475, 483-84 (2004).

In other words if you possess a folding knife during your weekly trip to Shop Rite and use it to break the seal on the sanitizing wipe container it's ok. If you brandish the knife while robbing Shop Rite it's a weapons violation. True?

[Tack Tickle 0]

I have always said the key was in the wording "circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses". Meaning harming someone or others property.

 

I've said this many times before on this forum. Carrying a knife is not doing harm to someone else or others property. It is a very useful tool. A fighting knife like the Applegate Fairbairn IS NOT a good tool. I would put that in the "size, shape and condition of the knife" making a knife illegal to "carry".

 

In other words if you possess a folding knife during your weekly trip to Shop Rite and use it to break the seal on the sanitizing wipe container it's ok. If you brandish the knife while robbing Shop Rite it's a weapons violation. True?

[Newtonian 453]

I have always said the key was in the wording "circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses". Meaning harming someone or others property.

 

I've said this many times before on this forum. Carrying a knife is not doing harm to someone else or others property. It is a very useful tool. A fighting knife like the Applegate Fairbairn IS NOT a good tool. I would put that in the "size, shape and condition of the knife" making a knife illegal to "carry".

So the Applegate is an "assault knife" but my SOG Flash II is not?

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Nappen says that great strides are being made in knife rights laws.  

 

He also says that assisted openers, where you need to push something on the blade rather than just hitting a button, are "per se" legal

(or maybe it was that they are not "per se" illegal), meaning that one is allowed to possess them without having to prove an "explainable purpose."

[Tack Tickle 0]

We are going to have to go with "assault knife" on the Applegate... SOG is not a gravity or switchblade. It takes force to get it past the fulcrum that springs the blade open. You are good with the Flash.

 

So the Applegate is an "assault knife" but my SOG Flash II is not?

[mcm308 0]

So how about the Applegate combat folder? Its been out of rotation but I carried one for a long time. I love it and may have to put it back into the rotation..

[Halflife 0]

So how about the Applegate combat folder? Its been out of rotation but I carried one for a long time. I love it and may have to put it back into the rotation..

 

Just my opinion.. but I avoid carrying any knife that can be made to somehow be "deadlier" than a regular pocket knife. I wouldn't want the prosecutor saying, here is his "Combat Knife", blah blah blah. 

 

Yes we all know in reality its no more dangerous than a Buck 110, but Judges and Jurys can be influenced by dangerous sounding things. 

 

Maybe I'm paranoid but I won't ever carry around my Spyderco Military, unless I'm hunting/fishing, because the name could be used to make it sound "scarier".

 

And I definitely will never carry around my Spyderco Civilian, as I'm sure that will be made to be illegal if I'm carrying it in most circumstances. Especially since the Tag that came with it said "Not for General Utility"

[mcm308 0]

The Spyderco Millie in a custom leather belt sheath is my current EDC er..one of my favs. I have big hands and prefer big blades.

[xXxplosive 823]

Man this state  is "F'd Up".............IMO.

[NJGF 375]

Actually we are pretty good compared to NYC!

[Scorpio64 5,146]

I bought my edc at home depot.  it's just another tool.

[Newtonian 453]

Nappen says that great strides are being made in knife rights laws.  

 

He also says that assisted openers, where you need to push something on the blade rather than just hitting a button, are "per se" legal

(or maybe it was that they are not "per se" illegal), meaning that one is allowed to possess them without having to prove an "explainable purpose."

But Nappen can determine if "per se" applies in your case provided you put $20k down as a retainer and are prepared to fork over everything you own to stay out of jail while the judge (a lawyer), prosecutor (a lawyer) and he (a lawyer) drag your case out for longer than the Nuremburg trials.

 

Tell me: Ever meet a plumber who would eliminate leaky pipes forever? A surgeon who'd rather sit idle in his office for 10 days because everyone suddenly got healthy than do bypass surgeries? A preacher who would not starve to death within a week if everyone turned from Beelzebub and all his evil works? 

[[email protected] 57]

A scary tactical knife will def scare a jury

[xXxplosive 823]

You can't even carry a pocket knife here without the threat of it landing you in jail............and y'all think the laws here are OK just because they're better than NYC....your delusional....IMO.

[Newtonian 453]

Now imagine if they applied the same standard to guns:

 

he State must prove that the folding knife was possessed under such circumstances that a reasonable person would recognize beyond a reasonable doubt that it was likely to be used as a weapon; in other words, under circumstances where it posed a likely threat of harm to others or a likely threat of damage to property. 

 

Change "knife" to "gun" and you essentially summarize the gun laws of about 45 states. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

the Applegate Fairbairn IS NOT a good tool.

 

I disagree.  Once I received a letter where not only did the sender lick the adhesive but they applied scotch tape.  I used Fairbairn to deftly slice the tape without penetrating the paper, thus not disturbing the internal contents of the letter.  An inferior knife may have ruined the internal contents. 

[W2MC 1,699]

Which is why I like the bright red handles of my Swiss Army Knife...no one ever questions what it is, and what its for.