Six12 Modular shotgun

[carl_g 568]

I know this is not NJ legal but it is cool as hell.

Check out this site: http://six12.com/

It can be a standalone shot gun

 

Or... attached to an AR:

[Lalo 13]

Looks pretty cool. Reminds me of this...

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

It is NJ legal in it's standard form.  It's gonna be pricey, but it will never arrive.  This company is so slow.

[DargZ 5]

That's wicked cool especially the cylinder change.  

 

I highly doubt this is legal anywhere.  According to the site, they "are selecting certain military and law enforcement to participate in the assessment".

 

This is also very similar to the striker or street sweeper which "is not generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes" by the ATF and would most likely classify it as a destructive device which will severely limit who can get one of these.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

It has a 22 inch barrel in it's standard configuration which makes it legal.  It's also not considered a semi auto because the double action trigger rotates the cylinder.   

[BlueLineFish 615]

It wont be legal in NJ. You dont have to manually cycle the action like a pump. My guess is that it wont be approved and even if its a grey area good luck finding an ffl to sell it to you.

[Polak 3]

Revolving cylinders are not semi automatic...

 

this should be legal in NJ.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

It looks like there will be 18" and 22" versions available.

[fishnut 2,358]

Sorry but am the only one who thinks that thing is even more ugly than the KSG. Give me my good old mossy 500 any day of the week 

[DirtyDigz 1,811]

It is NJ legal in it's standard form. ...

 

Hey hey, Ray Ray's back!  Welcome back Ray Ray!

 

Here's some fresh gun forum argumentation to welcome you back with:

 

You're wrong on the SIX12 being NJ legal, like you're wrong about bird shot being a good choice for an HD shotgun load.

 

Regardless of what mechanism prepares the next round for firing, it has a revolving cylinder, which runs it afoul of this little clause:

 

 

"Assault firearm" means:

 

     (1)   The following firearms:

 

     ...

 

     Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

 

     ...

[Vlad G 345]

I simply can not think of a SINGLE problem this gun fixes.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Revolving cylinders are not semi automatic...

 

this should be legal in NJ.

 

That's what I thought and heard but Dirty Digz hit us up with the damn law.  

[carl_g 568]

I simply can not think of a SINGLE problem this gun fixes.

That's too bad.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I simply can not think of a SINGLE problem this gun fixes.

 

You can look at it 2 ways.  1 way is that all you need are "basic firearms", so why deviate from that path?  And the second way is that, hey this is a new design and it opens the door to a different way of thinking.

[Vlad G 345]

Oh I'm down with cool guns, and I'm all ok with people trying new stuff out. I'm glad it exists in the market place, but only in the same way I'm glad cars like the convertible Murano exist. I don't want either one, but I'm glad the market place allows for the wackiness. I just have no practical application for one.

 

The rifle mounted model which is off limits for us is actually kinda interesting, allowing for a compact multishot shotgun though.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Oh I'm down with cool guns, and I'm all ok with people trying new stuff out. I'm glad it exists in the market place, but only in the same way I'm glad cars like the convertible Murano exist. I don't want either one, but I'm glad the market place allows for the wackiness. I just have no practical application for one.

 

The rifle mounted model which is off limits for us is actually kinda interesting, allowing for a compact multishot shotgun though.

 

The Tavor is a perfect example.  Before it came out, the argument was AR vs AK or piston AR vs Direct Impingement AR.  So out pops a bullpup 556 with a heavy trigger, weird controls and different handling.  Dudes bought those things and they are still selling today.  That gun is in the same class as this shotgun.  It's different, but it can still be implemented in someones defensive use.

[High Exposure 5,661]

I simply can not think of a SINGLE problem this gun fixes.

I can.

 

Now I can get six shots out of a breaching shotgun instead of just 4, all in a package of similar size to what I currently am issued. I can increase the capacity of a SBS without increasing length or adding a long-ass box mag that sticks out the bottom and smacks me in the dick every time I move or slams my knee every time I get low.

 

Remember, this shotgun wasn't designed for sporting, HD, or hunting use. It was designed to be a direct competitor for the M26 and Remington MCS for Military and LEO use as a standalone shotgun or "Masterkey" set up.

 

I would say the the comparison between this and the Tavor is slightly flawed. Yes, they are both bullpups, but the Tavor was designed to replace a fighting carbine. The Six12 was designed to replace an entry tool. It's still a shotgun and thanks to the variety of 12g ammo out there it can be re-purposes to a fighting shotgun or HD, but that was not the primary intended use. It is a useful byproduct of the design.

 

Besides - Australia, New Zealand, Austria (to name a few) have been using a bullpup (Steyr AUG) as a standard infantry rifles for decades before the Tavor reared its ugly head. Pun intended. Not to mention the UK's and France's awesome experience with their bullpup abortions. The idea if a Bullpup design for firearms is not new by any stretch of the imagination.

[Vlad G 345]

Err .. if you are talking about a breaching gun attached to a rifle sure, but I would think a separate version using just a pistol grip would be no longer then a bulpup given same barrel length. Its not as if you are going to shoulder that and put your face 8-10" from the door, are you?

[High Exposure 5,661]

Nope. I am talking about a standalone 870 Wingmaster with a 10" barrel, it has a 3 round capacity. The +1 extension I bought off you last year gives me 4 rounds and makes a nice standoff adapter.

 

 

This six12 would give me 6 rounds in a package the same size. That's a huge plus. Gives me 2 more tries to immediately attempt the breach before moving to an alternate brech point.

 

Agreed, that's not a use everyone needs - I've never had to conduct a ballistic breach outside of training and it is only authorized under very particular and specific circumstances with higher authority approval - but it is the use that the Six12 shotgun was designed for.

[Vlad G 345]

I can see that I guess.

 

I an impressed by the clever use of the +1 extension though

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Nope. I am talking about a standalone 870 Wingmaster with a 10" barrel, it has a 3 round capacity. The +1 extension I bought off you last year gives me 4 rounds and makes a nice standoff adapter.

 

 

 

If I can make one suggestion.  Get the birds beak grip.  I know, I know.  This is strictly a breaching gun but damn it!  It doesnt have to be painful.

[High Exposure 5,661]

I haven't tried the bird's beak, but the grip on their now is comfy as hell. Plus, it was a gift from the guy that runs the breaching program for 10th Mtn.

[vladtepes 1,060]

on the note of breaching.. would it not be more favorable to still use a stand alone breaching shotgun so that once you are clear and in you can run a smaller lighter carbine... while I think its totally doable to maneuver the interior of a building with a larger carbine.. I think given the choice I would opt for a smaller SBR without some drum fed shotgun hanging from the bottom... I just feel like once you clear a door the shotgun is not really needed so why weigh down the primary weapon with all that.. also isn't your breacher going to breach the door and move out of the way to allow others to advance? I know that the process is unpredictable but still appears to solve a problem that does not really exist...

[High Exposure 5,661]

Agreed. All of the LEO ballistic breaching programs I know if use dedicated breaching guns. These guns are also never used with standard ammo - breaching rounds only.

 

The Army has a different outlook and has been trying to create a better "Masterkey" setup for years. Plus, it probably still weighs the same/less than a SAW, 240B, or M4/203 combo.

 

I do know that some military units keep full size Mossberg shotguns as breaching guns instead of using a system like that.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Agreed. All of the LEO ballistic breaching programs I know if use dedicated breaching guns. These guns are also never used with standard ammo - breaching rounds only.

 

The Army has a different outlook and has been trying to create a better "Masterkey" setup for years. Plus, it probably still weighs the same/less than a SAW, 240B, or M4/203 combo.

 

I do know that some military units keep full size Mossberg shotguns as breaching guns instead of using a system like that.

 

 

I think its silly that they don't use a small dedicated breaching gun.... I mean especially in urban type areas where they are going through multiple structures in areas that may be very hostile.. I would not want to be lugging around a full size shotgun when there is no real need.. transition from full size shotgun to carbine.. no thanks.. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Very small shotguns have their own set of problems that need to be addressed. Remember, not everyone is a deltarangerseal. 18 year old Private Snuffy has to be able to follow the TTPs safely as well. Like any large organization, you train to the ability of the lowest/newest/least capable member.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Very small shotguns have their own set of problems that need to be addressed. Remember, not everyone is a deltarangerseal. 18 year old Private Snuffy has to be able to follow the TTPs safely as well. Like any large organization, you train to the ability of the lowest/newest/least capable member.

 

 

LOL 

"just give them regular shotguns.. they have probably handled those before.."

 

the smallest shotgun I've shot was 14in.. and there was really nothing complex about it.... I am sure they could learn quickly to use it without blowing their hand off.. 

[vladtepes 1,060]

If I can make one suggestion.  Get the birds beak grip.  I know, I know.  This is strictly a breaching gun but damn it!  It doesnt have to be painful.

 

I never found pistol grips to be that bad on small shotguns...

 

in regards to the bird head grip. I don't know if that is ideal for breaching.. think about how you are supporting the gun.. and think about the angle you are going at the door... I think that the grip would put your wrist at a really off angle.. 

 

also he is breaching a door.. not spending the day shooting at the range.. 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I haven't tried the bird's beak, but the grip on their now is comfy as hell. Plus, it was a gift from the guy that runs the breaching program for 10th Mtn.

 

 

The birds beak, although ghetto in appearance, is the best pistol grip on the market.  I've tried MANY grips on my 500 and have come to that conclusion.  The stock grip that comes with Mossbergs are like the sights that come on Glocks, totally useless and need to be replaced with real ones.  A step up is your hogue ones but when it comes to feel and ease of use the birds beak is second to none.  Holla

[High Exposure 5,661]

Remember Ray, I'm not moving the grip to my hip, ensuring the barrel is relatively level with the ground, and letting them rip. I have to aim high, low, straight in at chest level. They are all awkward angles dictated by the type of door, frame, and hinge. This is all done while standing a little off to the side of the vector of recoil. You need that "90degree" handle.