Lawn lion issues

[fishnut 2,358]

What town are the cats in I can reach out to some rescue groups that I know and see if they can help but they are in central and north jersey. Fell free to PM me if you don't want to broadcast the town on the net.

[son of sam 9]

What town are the cats in I can reach out to some rescue groups that I know and see if they can help but they are in central and north jersey. Fell free to PM me if you don't want to broadcast the town on the net.

Thank you for the offer. The town is Vineland.

I did a search for some groups. The only thing I find is the SPCA in Vineland area. The few kittens that we have managed to re-home seem to have adjusted well and calmed down. Unfortunately the older ones are not likely to ever be a pet. Perhaps a "barn cat" if someone could use some. Keep in mind even after removing so many cats there is still another 30-40 running around the yard.

[Fred2 367]

have you considered other options?

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/23/f6/fb/23f6fbd245fe8e2a47ccdcedeee014fb.jpg

[fishnut 2,358]

I'll let you know if I can find anyone that can help down that way

[Newtonian 453]

Its irresponsible people who have the same mentality as you Newtonian that have caused the feral cat problem in this country as well as many other problems. People need to be held accountable for their actions.

This is news to me. I have caused the feral cat problem by doing exactly what? By neutering all our animals? By taking in that abandoned cat and paying $100s for his care towards the end of his life? 

[Newtonian 453]

Well the law in NJ is if you feed or provide shelter for cats for 3 days or more it is now considered your property and you are responsible for it. Domestic house cats outside are not in their natural environment they are a product of people selectively breeding them to domesticate them. 

So not feeding a stray cat at all and letting it starve isn't "cruelty" but feeding him for some arbitrary number of days and then going on vacation for two weeks is officially cruelty, a crime. 

 

How about that buck who nibbled on my beans three weeks ago, ate half of them two weeks ago, and completely mowed them down over this past weekend? Is he officially "mine"? Do I have to plant beans for all eternity so that bastard doesn't starve?

[fishnut 2,358]

This is news to me. I have caused the feral cat problem by doing exactly what? By neutering all our animals? By taking in that abandoned cat and paying $100s for his care towards the end of his life?

 I Never said you caused a feral cat problem I said irresponsible people who have the same mentality as you caused the problems. I don't know you so I cant say weather you contributed to the problem or not. Try reading posts twice so you can comprehend what I said.

[fishnut 2,358]

So not feeding a stray cat at all and letting it starve isn't "cruelty" but feeding him for some arbitrary number of days and then going on vacation for two weeks is officially cruelty, a crime. 

 

How about that buck who nibbled on my beans three weeks ago, ate half of them two weeks ago, and completely mowed them down over this past weekend? Is he officially "mine"? Do I have to plant beans for all eternity so that bastard doesn't starve?

No if you don't start feeding the "stray" cat its not yours so your not responsible for it. If your neighbor beats his wife can you get charged with domestic violence? NO. But if you feed any DOMESTIC animal foe 3 days or more by law its yours, now if you stop feeding YOUR cat then yes you are guilty of a criminal offence and an asshole on top of it all.

 

For your question about the deer eating your beans. Is it a new species of deer that you have domesticated by selectively breeding them for many generations? Im guessing not so then it is a WILD deer not domesticated so no its not yours. Im not really sure why your having such a hard time distinguishing between domesticated and wild animals its really pretty easy.  

[mipafox 438]

No if you don't start feeding the "stray" cat its not yours so your not responsible for it. If your neighbor beats his wife can you get charged with domestic violence? NO. But if you feed any DOMESTIC animal foe 3 days or more by law its yours, now if you stop feeding YOUR cat then yes you are guilty of a criminal offence and an asshole on top of it all.

 

For your question about the deer eating your beans. Is it a new species of deer that you have domesticated by selectively breeding them for many generations? Im guessing not so then it is a WILD deer not domesticated so no its not yours. Im not really sure why your having such a hard time distinguishing between domesticated and wild animals its really pretty easy.  

I'm not sure why you keep looking to NJ law for a code of morality. How many times have you said feed an animal for 3 days over and over now? Doesn't that seem a little silly to you?

 

At least Jersey is one of the only states where there is no law against sex with livestock. Giddy up!

[fishnut 2,358]

I have said it twice. I don't really think that's excessive OR silly. I did not share my opinion of the law either I merely stated the law. So how bout your proof that eastern mountian lions live in NJ? You asked me to point out where I asked for the proof when you claimed you know about creditable sightings of them in NJ, so I did and I am still waiting. Your getting as bad as Shawn with making claims you can't prove

[Newtonian 453]

 I Never said you caused a feral cat problem I said irresponsible people who have the same mentality as you caused the problems. I don't know you so I cant say weather you contributed to the problem or not. Try reading posts twice so you can comprehend what I said.

"Its irresponsible people who have the same mentality as you Newtonian that have caused the feral cat problem"

 

Sure sounds like you meant I helped cause the feral cat problem.

 

Not sure which "same mentality" you're talking about. I have never fed a feral cat, although our recently deceased Spartacus was abandoned. I'm sure taking him in was some sort of crime. Go narc me out.

 

People who feed feral animals are idiots. And regarding "saving" those 50 feral cats you cannot. In the wild they're reservoirs of disease at best, wasteful predators at worst. They are never good pets. As far as I'm concerned all of them can choke on a giant hairball. That some view this as an illegal, awful tragedy says quite a lot to me.

[fishnut 2,358]

Ok ill spell it out for you in layman's terms. I said that irresponsible people that share the same mentality as you. Meaning people other than you that think it's ok to stop feeding their animal and hope that it will move on to be someone else problem at best or at worst die from. starvation, disease, or injury. If I was accusing you I would have said that Newtonian has added to the feral cat problem in this country but I did not. Is this clear enough for you? If not I Don't really know how to explain it to you so I would suggest starting school over starting with the third grade. As for feral cats personally I hate them, they are a plague on society but I do not wish to see any animal suffer for any reason. So in my opinion as I stated before cat owners should have to follow the same laws as dog owners. Then all feral cats could be legally trapped by animal control, held in a holding facility for the 7 day hold as required by law allowing time for an owner to come forward. After the 7 days if the animal is friendly and healthy it can be adopted out and if it is unfriendly or unhealthy the animal can be humanely euthanized

[glockncolts 48]

Feed cat every other day then

[Springfield1911 22]

I'm not sure who you spoke to but you are supposed to stop feeding feral cats. I have worked with a couple of health depts in the past because of flea problems in garden apartment complexes. They would knock on the doors of people feeding the cats and told them straight out if they don't stop feeding the cats then he would bring them to court. They eventually stopped and the cats dispersed. BTW, you can't "rehome" feral cats. 

[mipafox 438]

 

I cant figure out how to quote it but I asked for proof in the "mountain lion spotted in carneys point thread", last page on june 18 @4:29pm I asked for your supposed proof. Then I asked for it again on June 23 at 4:20pm. You admittedly make useless strange comments quite often so no personal attack here just pointing out my observation that your post had nothing to do with this thread.

I never made the claims you challenged, you invented them yourself. I never said Eastern Cougars were "alive and well in New Jersey." I never claimed Eastern Cougars weren't extinct. I never said they were in Jersey!

 

Show me one time I did. One time.

 

I didn't. I said there have been credible sightings of cougars, there have been cougars/remains discovered in the East (I never said Jersey), and there may not be any resident breeding pairs but they have been around from time to time for whatever reason.

 

You made up your own argument with yourself without bothering to read what I said. You have accused me of making three specific points, and only three, that I never did.

 

By the way, while you were making up shit in your own head, you should have clicked back one page to see all of the mocking memes and photos I posted about Shawn's supposed cougar sighting:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/74593-mountain-lion-in-carneys-point/page-8

 

You've either lost your mind or your reading comprehension. Similarly, when I mentioned that species have been intentionally underreported or completely denied by state game commissions (and not just PA), you responded (paraphrasing), 'What do wild boars have to do with cougars?'

 

Well, Sunshine, when I find your moral authority about feeding a stray cat for 3 days silly, WTF do cougars have to do with it?

 

Done with this idiocy.

 

*Drops Mic*

[fishnut 2,358]

I'm not sure who you spoke to but you are supposed to stop feeding feral cats. I have worked with a couple of health depts in the past because of flea problems in garden apartment complexes. They would knock on the doors of people feeding the cats and told them straight out if they don't stop feeding the cats then he would bring them to court. They eventually stopped and the cats dispersed. BTW, you can't "rehome" feral cats.

I am a certified Animal control Officer and Animal Cruelty investigator though I left the job in May of this year. I did not speak to anyone about the issue I just enforced the laws of NJ. The health dept that told people to stop feeding feral cats is completely wrong. Like it or not the law is if you feed a stray domestic animal for 3 days or more it is now your property and your responsibility for the rest of its life unless you give ownership to someone else willing to be responsible for the animal. So if a health dept ordered someone to stop feeding cats, the health officer could be charged by the SPCA or an appointed Animal Cruelty Investigator with animal cruelty/ animal abandonment. I have taken several problematic feral cat feeders who stopped feeding or refused to stop feeding but also refused to licenses and vaccinate their animals and I won every time. I am well aware that it is very difficult to rehome/ tame a feral cat that's why I never suggested it. Instead I suggested that the animals that are not friendly or healthy to be humanely euthanized which usually is a chemical injection.

[fishnut 2,358]

Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:56 AM


Quote from Mipafox


Eastern cougar placed on federal endangered species list of 1973 though last sighting was decades earlier

Really? That's certainly not true. There have been sightings. Honestly, there have been sightings by a lot of people I think are reliable and some I know are reliable. I don't know if there are zero "breeding pairs" in Jersey or PA or if there is a small an active population. But I'm convinced it's possible to run into one. Whether it is one roaming from out west (which HAS happened) or whether it escaped from a Mexican Drug Lord

That's what makes it interesting IMO. We know some types of cougars have been around, and we know (and THEY know) they have been spotted.

 

This sounds to me like you are claiming that there have been creditable sightings of eastern mountain lions. If im mistaken would you please clarify. By the way A mountain lion from out west roaming over to the east is NOT an eastern subspecies. we are not talking about the western sub species here.

[fishnut 2,358]

fishnut, on 17 Jun 2015 - 6:15 PM, said:


I don't know what year the eastern sub species of mountain lion were placed on the endangered list but just a few years ago they were declared extinct. There has not been one creditable sighting of one in a very long time. All the people who claim they sighted one have one thing in common, no one has a picture of one. there are allot of people that claim they have sighted bigfoot and other mythical creatures and all of their pictures turn out to be fakes. The only possibility of a person running into a mountain lion in the northeast is as you said either its a western sub species that has strayed far (this happened in NY and the mountain lion was from North Dakota) or a captive breed animal in a private collection (which did happen in North jersey 10 years ago or so, the carcass was found on the road and it was declawed so it was a captive animal. But the Eastern Sub species is extinct and anyone who claims they sighted one or has a picture of one is full of shit!     

Mipafox response

There certainly have been credible sightings.

You say the proof is there are no credible sightings and no photos, and then you say if somebody has a sighting or a photo they are full of shit.

Let's face it, you simply have your mind made up, you're not citing any facts or reason Convoluted and completely conflicting logic is not reason.

This also sounds to me like you are claiming that there have been creditable sightings of the eastern subspecies of mountain lions, would you please clarify

[fishnut 2,358]

Mipafox- Finally you are correct you have never claimed that the eastern subspecies of mountain lions are in NJ. see I can admit when I am wrong unlike you. You can be done with this idiocy if you want but that just proves my point even more that your wrong and your ego is to big to allow you to admit when your wrong 

 

Oh yeah and to be cool like you................*Drops Mic*

[mipafox 438]

OK Fishnut, I am going to take this completely seriously for a moment, since this is civil (although still not sure why this is coming up) and you are showing me how you came up with this. You are completely right that I responded to that and I mentioned that, and I see where you got it from. I never made a claim that Eastern cougars are not extinct. You are looking at a very specific distinction about the extinction of Eastern Mountain Lions which I really wasn't paying attention to. Do I think it's possible Eastern Mountain Lions are not extinct? Sure, I think it is possible. I never claimed that, and that was never a distinguishing criteria for me. My point was,

 

"Really? That's certainly not true. There have been sightings. Honestly, there have been sightings by a lot of people I think are reliable and some I know are reliable. I don't know if there are zero "breeding pairs" in Jersey or PA or if there is a small an active population. But I'm convinced it's possible to run into one. Whether it is one roaming from out west (which HAS happened) or whether it escaped from a Mexican Drug Lord "

 

All I was saying is cougars have been found and I believe there are many reliable reports of them. I give you full credit, but you are focusing on some idea that I claimed that "Eastern Mountain Lions" are definitely not extinct and that was not my point and I did not specify that.

 

BTW, WTF is your thing with cats and why does anything having to do with any type of cat piss you off so much? And, again, please note how vigorously I dismissed Shawn's claimed sightings of a cougar with Game Cam pics of African big game and Elvis riding the Lock Ness Monster.

 

YES, I believe there is a chance you can run into a cougar in the northeast, and YES, I believe there are many reliable sightings because there ARE. And, like I said, "I don't know if there are zero "breeding pairs" in Jersey or PA or if there is a small an active population. But I'm convinced it's possible to run into one. Whether it is one roaming from out west (which HAS happened) or whether it escaped from a Mexican Drug Lord "

 

Thank you for breaking it down for me, you were throwing claims around that never even crossed my mind. I don't know why this is so important to you but at least I now understand where you are coming from.

 

BTW, I may have to shoot a bunch of kitty cats I have been feeding for 4 days because they brought all their friends

[fishnut 2,358]

It is important to me because I have devoted a large portion of my life to wildlife and I consider my self very knowledgeable about wildlife and animals in general. I find it annoying when normal people who don't have the knowledge that I do tell me im wrong when I know I am right. It seems to me that your somewhat the same in that respect. Maybe its the Italian in me but when people tell me im wrong I feel compelled to prove I am right or learn from my mistake and admit that im wrong. Yes my whole argument was that there are no creditable sightings of the eastern subspecies. I know all about the western subspecies that have been found in the east and about the once captive mountain lions that have made their way into the wild for what ever reason, and have never denied that they exist. I don't really care about cats its just a coincidence that both the threads are about felines. I do however care when animals are needlessly suffering due to people for whatever reason. I don't care if you shoot the cats (that im pretty sure you are making up) that you have claimed you have been feeding (I also don't know the PA domestic animal laws regarding ownership) but if PA allows residents to follow all the AVA guidelines of euthanasia, as long as you follow them to kill the animal quickly and cleanly I have no problem with it. FYI during my classes to be certified as a Animal Cruelty investigator, Collin Cambell the head of the NJ health dept pointed out to us that NJ allows gunshots as an acceptable means of euthanasia (while following the AVA guidelines) but it is not allowed in PA. I know we have gone back and fourth about this before and I can not find any PA laws regarding gunshots as a method of euthanasia for domestic animals one way or another. Because of my former job I have personally euthanized more animals wild and domestic than probably any other person on this forum (unless there is a vet here) and I don't loose any sleep over it because I killed each of those animals quickly, cleanly, and with nothing but respect for the animal and its life that I took. so trying to mess with me by stating you are going to shoot cats dose not bother me if you do it the right way, but if you don't do it right and cause the animal to suffer then in my eyes your the scum of the earth, on the same level as child molesters and I fully believe in karma and you will have to answer for your actions one day even if your not caught by the authority's.

[mipafox 438]

We are cool, by me, anyway. I had no idea where that was coming from. You were focused like a laser on something that never crossed my mind.

 

If I believe people have run into cats means you are wrong, then yes, you are wrong. Because I do. Personally, I wouldn't look at it that way, and didn't expect you would.

 

I would dust a kitty cat at the drop of a hat. I am willing to take very little shit from animals. Even too many of them hanging around could be a death sentence. That being said, if I told you my record of killing mammals, I think you would be surprised and pleased. You whacked out tree hugger

 

Do they let bunny cops carry guns in NJ or are you just normal people?

[NotJust22s 10]

I like cats.

[NotJust22s 10]

Taste like chicken

[fishnut 2,358]

yup cool here too. I am the tree hugger that tree huggers hate as I have been a licensed hunter for 20 years and just ate venison for dinner. Nope Animal Control Officers aka bunny cops, dog catchers, pooch patrol ect are not allowed to carry a handgun in NJ I did carry a .22 rifle (all transport laws followed) in the truck but most of the time I would have the police come out and euthanize the animal. I was allowed to carry a "bite stick" though AKA an expandable baton but rarely needed it. Appointed Animal Cruelty Investigators at the moment can not carry in NJ but there is a push to allow them to carry because in NJ cruelty investigators have the authority to arrest people violating the title 4 laws (animal laws) as well as serve warrants. I never felt the need for a gun for protection from the animals anyway. the people I would have to confront though is a different story there were a few times I really felt unsafe without a gun.   

[mipafox 438]

Well, you seem principled and reasonable when you break it down in detail like that.

 

3 days

 

If you went animal wacko, I was going to post a pic of some of the stray/free range farm cats that come around here and ask if you are old enough to remember Eddie Murphy and Larry the Lobster on Saturday Night Live

[mipafox 438]

Do you work out of 401 East State?

 

I probably have to go down there for an OPRA file review this month. It's like 50 boxes and I will bring a guy to help but if I sent somebody without me it would take them days to go through it. Some things you have to do yourself. Maybe we can meet for lunch. I'll bring dead cat oven gloves I've never done more than about ten boxes so I hope they reserve two or more desk spots because it's going to be a mess. Make sure they have enough red pages and green pages because I will probably go through a week's worth.

[fishnut 2,358]

Nope I work at a school now