Person to person hand gun.

[sosa9999 5]

My question is, as a buyer what ID do I need to see from the seller.

[Budasac 13]

For hand guns I like to see the sellers original permit to prove ownership. He will have to enter his info on your permit for the sale (so you will have a copy). You'll probably just want to confirm the info by checking his DL / FID.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

For hand guns I like to see the sellers original permit to prove ownership. He will have to enter his info on your permit for the sale (so you will have a copy). You'll probably just want to confirm the info by checking his DL / FID.

There's only one problem with that.  NOT ALL HAND GUNS ARE REGISTERED!!!!!!!

 

It may be bought legally out-of-state.  In New Mexico all ya need is a driver's license.  Then if ya move to Dirty Jersey and wish to sell the gun, what papers are there?

 

It may be sold and/or gifted from an estate where no paperwork exists.

 

It may be a War relic where the dead Kraut didn't sign it over to the American GI that brought it home in his duffle bag.

 

The seller needn't even have a NJFPID Card, in which case a SS# will do!

[Budasac 13]

There's only one problem with that. NOT ALL HAND GUNS ARE REGISTERED!!!!!!!

 

It may be bought legally out-of-state. In New Mexico all ya need is a driver's license. Then if ya move to Dirty Jersey and wish to sell the gun, what papers are there?

 

It may be sold and/or gifted from an estate where no paperwork exists.

 

It may be a War relic where the dead Kraut didn't sign it over to the American GI that brought it home in his duffle bag.

 

The seller needn't even have a NJFPID Card, in which case a SS# will do!

That's true but, I have yet to come across that and honestly, there's no way to tell the difference between a legal handgun and a stolen one in your scenario. Yes, you have the person's name if you check their DL but that won't make any difference. The gun will still be evidence. Either way, I always like to ask for the permit and have yet to have seller who didn't produce one.

[dajonga 396]

P2P and matching DL is all that is needed. I usually show my FID at the same time, but it is not needed. If I recall, you do not need to have a NJ FID card to get a P2P.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

WHATEVER!

 

I have five Cap and Ball revolvers that were purchased out of state.  Don't ask to see any permits if I sell you one, lol!

 

I have two hand guns my Mom gave me that belonged to my Dad.  Don't have papers on them either, so don't ask.

 

I guess it depends upon how long ya been doin' this shootin' bidness....

 

I always deal in facts and present the entire realm of possibilities, thus refraining from "absolutes" that can ensnare me.  If someone sells me a stolen gun, I dime them out to NJSP, along with photos from my phone of them smiling into the camera and holding the stolen gun.  And I take a photo of their house or apt. number, etc., etc.  If no FPID, I ask to see SS# and DL.  So far NONE have been stolen property.  That sh!t winds-up at the Buy-Backs, lol!

[carl_g 568]

FTF is the way to go!

[PK90 3,570]

FTF is the way to go!

And without a permit.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[JohnnyB 4,321]

P2P and matching DL is all that is needed. I usually show my FID at the same time, but it is not needed. If I recall, you do not need to have a NJ FID card to get a P2P.

I believe having a valid Nj FPID is a prerequisite to obtaining a P2P! The FPID assigns you an SBI number which you must have before you can apply for a P2P! 

 

You can apply for both at the same time or for just a FPID for long arms. You can't apply for a P2P without a FPID though! Someone will correct me if I am wrong here for sure!

 

The onus is on the purchaser! The seller need not provide more than his SSN, Name, address, DOB and should show an ID verifying he/she is in fact who the say they are! 

 

In the end, the state does not care so much where the gun came from. They want to know who has it now!!!!

[Sandy 44]

On your P2P there will be fields with all the required info from the seller. SBI number is asked for. They may not have needed a P2P to get that handgun , I would not get hung up on seeing a permit from the seller. I'm going from memory but I believe they ask for sellers name , address , birthday , ssi number , FID number..

[JohnnyB 4,321]

On your P2P there will be fields with all the required info from the seller. SBI number is asked for. They may not have needed a P2P to get that handgun , I would not get hung up on seeing a permit from the seller. I'm going from memory but I believe they ask for sellers name , address , birthday , ssi number , FID number..

The seller is not required to have a FPID card or an SBI number.

[sosa9999 5]

What if seller has a NJ F.I.D but has a N.Y. D.L.

Seller just moved to NY and rather sell then apply in NY.

[JohnnyB 4,321]

What if seller has a NJ F.I.D but has a N.Y. D.L.

Seller just moved to NY and rather sell then apply in NY.

You as the buyer have to obtain the P2P!  There is no place on the P2P form for the seller's DL number. Just buy the damn gun if you want it!!!!!! You are making a mountain out of molehill!!! You are within the law to make the

purchase! take down all the info he provides! If something is wrong, they will go after him, not you!

[boo 6]

What if seller has a NJ F.I.D but has a N.Y. D.L.

Seller just moved to NY and rather sell then apply in NY.

 

If the seller is a NY resident, this becomes an interstate transaction. The handgun must be transferred to you by an NJ FFL.

 

On your P2P there will be fields with all the required info from the seller. SBI number is asked for. They may not have needed a P2P to get that handgun , I would not get hung up on seeing a permit from the seller. I'm going from memory but I believe they ask for sellers name , address , birthday , ssi number , FID number..

 

While the permit asks for seller SS#, I don't ask for it when buying, nor do I provide when selling.

[Howard 538]

^^^^Most likely true.  Although the actual form says in red next to where the seller enters their address "(Must reside in New Jersey).  I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV but residing I believe is different from being a legal resident.  The form also says where the seller may enter their SSN "(Disclosure of SSN is voluntary).

[sosa9999 5]

Thank you all, I will play it safe and go through an FFL for the transfer. Rather play it safe and spend a little for a clean transfer.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I need to borrow Sandy's tag-line:  HOWARD WAS RIGHT!!!!

I need.....LOL

[PD2K 115]

I'm assuming you're purchasing from someone in NJ. All you need to see is their driver's license simply to confirm the information that will be written on the P2P.

 

The forumites are correct in that not every handgun is registered.

[PD2K 115]

What if seller has a NJ F.I.D but has a N.Y. D.L.

Seller just moved to NY and rather sell then apply in NY.

 

I believe it is now an out of state transaction and will require a FFL to transfer.

[Rob0115 1,105]

^^^^Most likely true.  Although the actual form says in red next to where the seller enters their address "(Must reside in New Jersey).  I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV but residing I believe is different from being a legal resident.  The form also says where the seller may enter their SSN "(Disclosure of SSN is voluntary).

To be a legal resident you need to have a residence thus you reside in NJ.  I am a multi-state resident with a FL drivers license.  I've outlined how form 4473 works for dealers for multi-state residents.  You need not have an NJ drivers license to buy or sell a gun in NJ you only need to prove you reside here.  Without a residence you cannot legally reside here.  If you have an FID with an address that you don't live at that FID is invalid.  If you have no home (owned or rented) in NJ you are not a legal resident.  

 

When I am in NJ I am an NJ resident because I own a home that I live in part time.  When I am in FL I am a Florida resident because I have a home that own there and live in while staying there.  I also happen to have an FL DL and some FFL's won't sell me a gun because they don't understand form 4473 or the NICS web page.  I've heard D/L is required on NICS and IT 100% IS NOT.  I only need some government document to prove I own a home here, the FID is fine, a tax bill, etc.  The drivers license is only used to establish identity AND NOT RESIDENCE.  

 

You can buy a gun from someone with a NY DL person to person without an FFL if he/she can also prove that he/she also resides in NJ.  

 

Please see the long discussion on multi-state residency if you are curious about how NICS and form 4473 look at residency, proof of residency and purchasing a gun when you are a multi-state resident. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

I believe it is now an out of state transaction and will require a FFL to transfer.

This is correct.  That person is no longer an NJ resident unless they dwell part time at the address listed on the FID.  If they do not then the FID is no longer valid either.  

[Rob0115 1,105]

That's true but, I have yet to come across that and honestly, there's no way to tell the difference between a legal handgun and a stolen one in your scenario. Yes, you have the person's name if you check their DL but that won't make any difference. The gun will still be evidence. Either way, I always like to ask for the permit and have yet to have seller who didn't produce one.

This is how it works in the rest of the country--there are no permits.  I walked into a dealer recently and bought a Tangfolio EAA Witness match 10mm and walked out after showing my D/L and paying.  All I have is a receipt for 700+ bucks.  However, remember if you are using a permit-to-purchase to acquire the gun you'll have the name and address and date of the person who sold it to you, the make, model, caliber and serial number of the gun, thus you are protected.  Just make sure they provide some sort of ID as to who they are (DL) and if it doesn't have their NJ address have them produce a tax bill or some other form of government document to establish NJ residence.  If they don't then have them book it into an FFL and do the paperwork with them.  

[Smokin .50 1,907]

This is how it works in the rest of the country--there are no permits.  I walked into a dealer recently and bought a Tangfolio EAA Witness match 10mm and walked out after showing my D/L and paying.  All I have is a receipt for 700+ bucks.  However, remember if you are using a permit-to-purchase to acquire the gun you'll have the name and address and date of the person who sold it to you, the make, model, caliber and serial number of the gun, thus you are protected.  Just make sure they provide some sort of ID as to who they are (DL) and if it doesn't have their NJ address have them produce a tax bill or some other form of government document to establish NJ residence.  If they don't then have them book it into an FFL and do the paperwork with them.  

NOT ONLY IS HOWARD RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT TOOOOOOOOOOOO!  LOL

[Budasac 13]

This is how it works in the rest of the country--there are no permits. I walked into a dealer recently and bought a Tangfolio EAA Witness match 10mm and walked out after showing my D/L and paying. All I have is a receipt for 700+ bucks. However, remember if you are using a permit-to-purchase to acquire the gun you'll have the name and address and date of the person who sold it to you, the make, model, caliber and serial number of the gun, thus you are protected. Just make sure they provide some sort of ID as to who they are (DL) and if it doesn't have their NJ address have them produce a tax bill or some other form of government document to establish NJ residence. If they don't then have them book it into an FFL and do the paperwork with them.

I know how it works in the rest of the country. I'm simply letting the OP know what I ask for before a sale in NJ. No, not everyone is going to have a permit from the original sale. All I'm saying is that if you're apprehensive about a private sale, having the seller produce the original P2P should alleviate all fears.

 

For all those who say you have their info and you're covered if it's stolen or had been used in a crime, that's all well and good, you won't go to jail, but you will lose the gun and the money and have to deal with an investigation.

 

Is it likely that you buy an illegal gun? Probably not but, I'll still ask for the paperwork anyway. If they don't have it then I have to decide, based on the situation, if I want to proceed with the sale.

 

I've bought hand guns at parkway rest stops in the middle of the night and an AR in a TGIFridays parking lot. I have found lots of good deals on Armslist and have no issues buying from complete strangers. I just like to cover my ass when possible. Asking for the original permit can't hurt. I never said it was necessary for a sale. Just informing the OP of what I like to ask for.

[PK90 3,570]

After buying hundreds of used firearms, I've never asked to see the previous permit if there was one. I could care less. I've even turned down looking at them when the seller wants to produce it. If the gun was stolen, I guess I just passed it along to someone else. No way to check. And the NJSP never called me for a stolen handgun that was transferred.