Another PA man faces NJ gun charges

[Howard 538]

In other words "everybody knows" you don't bring a gun into New York City. Fair enough. But it's still wrong to prosecute someone for driving across NJ, or for entering the sacred gun-free zone known as New York City. Maybe more people should violate these laws. Overwhelm them. Would it work?

It's not even that everyone knows NYC is a gun free slum, it's that he would have traveled through two states other than PA to get there.  As a carry permit holder you are responsible for knowing the laws if you try to use your permit out of state.  It is one thing to accidentally cross out of the state, it is another thing to drive 100 miles out of the state.

[tattooo 220]

This is true

[jackandjill 683]

Essentially one State is convicting a US Citizen for something thats NOT a crime in rest of United States.  How is that for fairness ?

 

Other than some warlord factions in Somalia or Afghanistan, I dont know any civilized country that treats their Citizens drastically differently across internal state lines. 

[1LtCAP 4,263]

i generally can't stand fed interference......it's time for them to step in and pass national reciprocity though, and ram it down commie states throats. really, that shouldn't even be necessary....

[tattooo 220]

Wishful thinking

[njpilot 671]

Well said maintenanceguy and congrats on getting out.

 

For those that keep saying "he should've known NJ gun laws", you forget that America doesn't revolve around that shithole. Residents of shitjersey don't even know how bad all of the laws are. As previously posted by mipafox, how often do we have a new gun owner come here and ask the same questions about hollow points or transport and people that have been here a longtime still give out bad info.

 

I picked up a gun at a local FFL here in northeastern FL and the woman I dealt with was shocked as I kept telling her about shitjersey's gun laws.

 

Most people don't know.

[robot_hell 72]

Why does that mean Federal involvement?  Driver's licenses are administered by individual states only, but are honored in all 50 states.

 

Most states receive federal funds for roads. But aside from that, it would take nothing short of a federal law supplanting state rights in order to unify CCW among all 50, don't you think?

[brucin 923]

This man got his permit in a state where it is more convenient to get a LTC than it is to get a drivers license.. Why would he know or care about NJ laws.

 

Being from NJ and NY I scrupulously study the laws because it is ingrained on the subjects of these states that "guns are bad".

 

I had the pleasure of meeting Shaneen Allen a few weeks ago and she did not know that she could get a LTC until a month prior to her getting it. She explained that Filthadelphia puts up many road blocks to its citizens but she honestly believed that her permit was like her drivers license. Apparently she is not the only one. She also said that her neighbors have no idea that they have a right to get a LTC. The info is just not put out there. She is attempting to change that while also informing as many people as possible about staying out of NJ.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

how many of you have carry permits from other states? who gave the courses? didn't they pretty much go over with you about reciprocity? i seem to recall the instructor doing just that when i went for my utah non-resident. i thought they all did it. we got a sheet with a list of the states that honor that permit.....with admonishments to remember to check back on their website to verify things changing or not changing.

[tattooo 220]

I remember the same cap

[HBecwithFn7 296]

how many of you have carry permits from other states? who gave the courses? didn't they pretty much go over with you about reciprocity? i seem to recall the instructor doing just that when i went for my utah non-resident. i thought they all did it. we got a sheet with a list of the states that honor that permit.....with admonishments to remember to check back on their website to verify things changing or not changing.

 

 

I remember the same cap

 

As do I.   In fact, those classes should have  "pre-class" homework assignment to look up the "most restrictive" state on handgunlaw.us  and bring the results to class.

[tattooo 220]

So there's really no excuse

[1LtCAP 4,263]

So there's really no excuse

as much as i hate to sound like a douche.......that is kinda what i was getting at. as ccw holders, regardless of our state of residence, regardless of the state of issue of said ccw, it is OUR responsibility, and ours alone to know the law(at LEAST the ccw laws) of reciprocity in the state we're traveling to. i don't like these dam laws any better than the next guy, or you guys.....but i think you get the point.

[CMJeepster 2,778]

You want people to take personal responsibility?

 

[tattooo 220]

as much as i hate to sound like a douche.......that is kinda what i was getting at. as ccw holders, regardless of our state of residence, regardless of the state of issue of said ccw, it is OUR responsibility, and ours alone to know the law(at LEAST the ccw laws) of reciprocity in the state we're traveling to. i don't like these dam laws any better than the next guy, or you guys.....but i think you get the point.

I'm with you on this Cap .....

[njpilot 671]

how many of you have carry permits from other states? who gave the courses? didn't they pretty much go over with you about reciprocity? i seem to recall the instructor doing just that when i went for my utah non-resident. i thought they all did it. we got a sheet with a list of the states that honor that permit.....with admonishments to remember to check back on their website to verify things changing or not changing.

Not all states infringe on their residents' rights by making them take classes in order to exercise that Constitutionally protected right.

 

I don't believe PA requires a class, but I could be wrong.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Most states receive federal funds for roads. But aside from that, it would take nothing short of a federal law supplanting state rights in order to unify CCW among all 50, don't you think?

 

You're opposed to the federal government violating states rights but perfectly comfortable with our state government violating people's rights?

 

I'm assuming of course that you believe the 2nd amendment guaranteed an individual right but I may be wrong.  Maybe that's where I'm so confused about the conversation here.  It seems obvious to me that there is an individual right to keep (own) and bear (carry) firearms and that NJ violates that important, constitutionally guaranteed civil right.

 

So for me, when some guy gets charged for exercising a civil right, I blame the State.  I'm still trying to understand those who blame the man.

 

But  that kind of thinking - that the government knows best and that rights are revokable - is the norm in NJ.  I simply do not think that way and I can't stand it any more.   This is why I'm out of here.

[voyager9 3,434]

You can blame the state for having unconstitutional laws, and the Feds for not overturning it, but some responsibility falls on the individual for violating it.

 

The individual can choose to ignore the law as a means of protest (not saying that's what happened here) but they still are responsible if they get jammed up.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robot_hell 72]

You're opposed to the federal government violating states rights but perfectly comfortable with our state government violating people's rights?

 

I'm assuming of course that you believe the 2nd amendment guaranteed an individual right but I may be wrong.  Maybe that's where I'm so confused about the conversation here.  It seems obvious to me that there is an individual right to keep (own) and bear (carry) firearms and that NJ violates that important, constitutionally guaranteed civil right.

 

So for me, when some guy gets charged for exercising a civil right, I blame the State.  I'm still trying to understand those who blame the man.

 

But  that kind of thinking - that the government knows best and that rights are revokable - is the norm in NJ.  I simply do not think that way and I can't stand it any more.   This is why I'm out of here.

 

I'm not comfortable with the state government violating rights at all. Your assumption about my belief in the individual right is correct, but I'm not blaming the fed for NJ's revocation; I'm saying that relying on the feds to fix it by means of trampling ALL state rights is misguided.

 

Could you imagine if the federal government were to step in and provide national reciprocity by way of a required national database/registration system? Overall a rights win for residents of NJ and NYC. Overall a rights loss for residents of VT, AZ, AK... well, most other states.

 

Yes, I realize this is a slippery slope argument, but our states range from "right completely denied" to "right completely respected"; in order to level the playing field for the entire country, some states would be taking a hit.

[jackandjill 683]

You can blame the state for having unconstitutional laws, and the Feds for not overturning it, but some responsibility falls on the individual for violating it.

 

The individual can choose to ignore the law as a means of protest (not saying that's what happened here) but they still are responsible if they get jammed up.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let me guess. Blame is just "say stuff" and Responsible is to suffer consequences and pay for it, even if it means having the most basic rights denied for rest of your life ? 

 

If so, I think you got that backwards. NJ should take responsibility , apologize to individual, slap a $500 fee as means of "blaming" him and call it a day. 

[brucin 923]

Not all states infringe on their residents' rights by making them take classes in order to exercise that Constitutionally protected right.

 

I don't believe PA requires a class, but I could be wrong.

PA does not require any class either for residents or non residents. You fill out the form and receive your permit.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

Not all states infringe on their residents' rights by making them take classes in order to exercise that Constitutionally protected right.

 

I don't believe PA requires a class, but I could be wrong.

you could be right on that one. but there is still the fact that it is incumbent on each of us as a ccw holder to know where we can/cannot go whilst carrying.

[DeerSlayer 241]

NJ should post signs at all Delaware river crossings. Something like this:

[maintenanceguy 510]

The biggest, meanest 8th grade bully on the school bus steals everyone's lunch money every day.  He holds you down and goes through your pockets and book bag.

 

Everyone on the bus is scared of this guy and has convinced their parents to put money into their electronic school lunch account instead of using cash.  Cash gets you robbed and maybe beat up.

 

Today there's a new kid on the bus route who doesn't know the bully's rule. Maybe he met one of other kids on the bus already who warned him but he really doesn't believe it could be that bad.   So he brings cash.

 

As expected he is held down, pockets searched, lunch money stolen.   Who's fault is it?  The bully or the kid who got robbed?   I guess the kid who got robbed deserves what happened to him.  Even though the bully broke the law, everyone else knew the bully's rules and this kid should have too.

[tattooo 220]

The biggest, meanest 8th grade bully on the school bus steals everyone's lunch money every day. He holds you down and goes through your pockets and book bag.

 

Everyone on the bus is scared of this guy and has convinced their parents to put money into their electronic school lunch account instead of using cash. Cash gets you robbed and maybe beat up.

 

Today there's a new kid on the bus route who doesn't know the bully's rule. Maybe he met one of other kids on the bus already who warned him but he really doesn't believe it could be that bad. So he brings cash.

 

As expected he is held down, pockets searched, lunch money stolen. Who's fault is it? The bully or the kid who got robbed? I guess the kid who got robbed deserves what happened to him. Even though the bully broke the law, everyone else knew the bully's rules and this kid should have too.

Excellent analogy

.....

[jackandjill 683]

Almost everyone on that bus would say it's new kids fault. That's how low NJ has come to become.

 

FBI estimates about 8% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome. Apparently in NJ it's close to 90%.

[tattooo 220]

Sad but very true

[jackandjill 683]

There got to be a book written exclusively about how good men do despicable things because thats the law. Didn't anyone research Hitler era and write one ?

[bobblackrifle 28]

I am surprised no one has filed a federal lawsuit under the equal protection clause. We have a Constitution that has been annihilated. Equal protection under the Constitution may be their best defense, and our best hope of getting personal carry in this state.

[Fred2 367]

I am surprised no one has filed a federal lawsuit under the equal protection clause. We have a Constitution that has been annihilated. Equal protection under the Constitution may be their best defense, and our best hope of getting personal carry in this state.

Filing a lawsuit such as this would bankrupt most people

 

This is a close as we are going to get

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/75836-second-amendment-preservation-and-protection-act-sappa/