Petition for CCW

[Golf battery 1,223]

Wow. Just about 1k shy of 15 k sigs.

[Newtonian 453]

You do have a point but it's still good to keep up pressure

Point 1: Keep up what pressure? You think he feels pressure from 400 gun nuts signing a goddamned petition? Waste of electrons, waste of ATP molecules.

Point 2: What, exactly, do you expect Christie to do that would "allow concealed carry of firearms for self defense!" !? Sign an executive order? Jump off a bridge? Go on a low-carb diet? What???

 

This is precisely the kind of mindlessness posing as activism that is so popular on these forums, that gets us nowhere. Christie is the lamest of lame ducks that ever quacked in the entire history of quackery. He had a point, albeit one that was gratuitously self-exculpatory, when he blamed the legislature. And he knew, given the palpable lack of pro-2A leadership in this state, and the pathetic paucity of gun owner participation in the democratic process, that he'd be forever off the hook.

 

Let's recall the democrat legislators, one by one!! It will only take three months!!! Total!!! Let's litigate for justifiable need, individual by individual!!! After only 300,000 years we'll all be free!!! Let's convince juries to nullify our laws, case by case!!! Eventually they'll all be shitting in their drawers!!! I can visualize Loretta's soiled panties as I type this!!! I'm excited!!! It will be AWESOME!!!

 

Let's just sit on our asses and sign these stupid petitions, send letters and emails to our representatives whose votes are pre-determined by political affiliation, take a day off to yell and scream at them in committee hearings, lecturing them on theology and law that they do not believe in and never will. Let's do everything the various pro-2A groups tell us to do, and brag about it in these forums. That will show them!!!

 

I SIGNED THE PETITION!!! I EMAILED MY ASSEMBLYWOMAN!!!

 

But by no means should we simply vote them out.

 

That would be stupid, ignorant, counter-productive, and fatally injurious to our anointed pro-2A leadership which depends for their existence on our continued stupidity and subservience.

 

 

 

[jackandjill 683]

^^^^ I am waiting for a bold, imaginative, inspiring leader like you to show how its done. Would you please ? 

 

In all seriousness, Chris is doing his "stupid" petition (as you put it), SAPPA is doing their legal thing.  People like Almeida are doing what they can.  

 Were you able to gather 100 people, inspire, convince them of your "idea" and lead them ? 

[Golf battery 1,223]

Ya know this will probably have no current direct effect on anything right now. But it does get the word out and bring awareness to people that otherwise probably would of never given it a second thought or even known what ccw is.

[tattooo 220]

Were at over 11000 not 400 but I here you Newt

[A-Tech 8]

And it's been picked up by the popular website, The Truth about Guns

[Golf battery 1,223]

Just shy of 15k now.

[Newtonian 453]

Just shy of 15k now.

You mean you have 15,000 signatures to ask Christie to do something? That is indeed impressive.

 

But as usual nobody responds to the main point: WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO? Be specific.

[A-Tech 8]

You mean you have 15,000 signatures to ask Christie to do something? That is indeed impressive.

 

But as usual nobody responds to the main point: WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO? Be specific.

He can single handedly instruct the AG to define justifiable need so that it is not so grey and unclear. He can pursuade the definition to be made that it includes any legal gun owner who meets "xyz".

[Newtonian 453]

He can single handedly instruct the AG to define justifiable need so that it is not so grey and unclear. He can pursuade the definition to be made that it includes any legal gun owner who meets "xyz".

I've heard this before but I don't believe it. It's too easy. And too easy to counter his comment about "get me a Republican legislature." 

 

Even if the planets were to align we would never enjoy that fiat right. He's got 14 months remaining. Not enough time to incorporate the administrative procedures, to get the process rolling. And even if there were, and could put up with the resistance and backlog (don't we have an entire thread devoted to year-long waits for purchase permits and IDs??), the new Governor would, on his very first day in office, sign legislation that would "fix" the problem once and for all, and conceivably put serious dents into our remaining rights.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

It seems to me that since the Pennsylvania AG was able to unilaterally decide that Florida and Utah nonresident CCW permits would no longer be honored in her state, then it would be a simple matter for our governor to issue an EO redefining "justifiable need" as self defense or "for all legal purposes."

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Old Glock Guy,

 

Two different states; two different rules. Kane is elected in PA. Hoffman is appointed by the Governor in NJ.

 

I signed the petition, but tend to agree with Newtonian. Christie is a short-timer. Eyes on a bigger prize; he could care less about NJ and our gun rights. Shame the NRA is not holding him to the fire for the comments he made in the spring about setting up the committee. Even if he signed an EO in January, by the time the SP get around to doing the paperwork and creating the new rules, the next Dem governor will replace Christie's EO with their own.

 

The easiest thing I would think the SP would do is make our FID the de facto CCW permit. We already have been vetted by getting it. No need to do another background check. Other than the State would want to collect MORE money from us by having us all refile again. The FID card and the P2P is already redundant anyway.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Christie has the authority to amend the administrative code.

The insurmountable definition of "justifiable need" is in the administrative code.

Christie could add "self defense" to that definition and it becomes law.

 

Except...

 

The definition of justifiable need came from NJ caselaw.  If Christie changes it, the courts would immediately invalidate it.   All three branches want our rights to be infringed and if one branch fails at doing that, the other two will step up and make sure it's done.

[tattooo 220]

So basically even if he amended it they would crap all over it

[ChrisJM981 924]

Christie has the authority to amend the administrative code.

The insurmountable definition of "justifiable need" is in the administrative code.

Christie could add "self defense" to that definition and it becomes law.

 

Except...

 

The definition of justifiable need came from NJ caselaw.  If Christie changes it, the courts would immediately invalidate it.   All three branches want our rights to be infringed and if one branch fails at doing that, the other two will step up and make sure it's done.

Wouldn't that prove collusion by the courts to deny our rights? I think that's a good thing.

[tattooo 220]

It could prove collusion but it still wouldn't get us anywhere

[Newtonian 453]

Again, I can't fault anyone for trying, for trying anything, but given the circumstances this petition is surely a waste of time. Go for it if you like. I could have signed it 30 times instead of criticizing it here. 

 

Lack of statewide leadership + lack of national organization support = spinning our wheels on tracks greased with B.S.

 

Over and over and over.

[vladtepes 1,060]

the problem will forever be that it is not a "priority" issue in NJ...

 

the percentage of people that 1) think you shouldn't have ANY guns coupled with the people that 2) own guns but think that the only legitimate use is sport far outweigh 3) true 2a supporters people that think you should be able to carry..

 

when you represent a huge minority it is hard to get politicians to listen..  

[Stonecoldchavez 92]

Depends who is the "huge minority" is. Look at the dopes, the Black Justice League (bwah!) protesting at Princeton University. Less than a hundred dopey college kids have a two day sit-in and the school president already caved to their "demands" of removing Woodrow Wilson from the building name. Less than 100 dopes.......we have a few thousand gun-owners on this and cannot get any traction with the slimes in Trenton. Is it the message, the delivery, or the numbers?

[Parker 213]

 

Point 1: Keep up what pressure? You think he feels pressure from 400 gun nuts signing a goddamned petition? Waste of electrons, waste of ATP molecules.

Point 2: What, exactly, do you expect Christie to do that would "allow concealed carry of firearms for self defense!" !? Sign an executive order? Jump off a bridge? Go on a low-carb diet? What???

 

This is precisely the kind of mindlessness posing as activism that is so popular on these forums, that gets us nowhere. Christie is the lamest of lame ducks that ever quacked in the entire history of quackery. He had a point, albeit one that was gratuitously self-exculpatory, when he blamed the legislature. And he knew, given the palpable lack of pro-2A leadership in this state, and the pathetic paucity of gun owner participation in the democratic process, that he'd be forever off the hook.

 

Let's recall the democrat legislators, one by one!! It will only take three months!!! Total!!! Let's litigate for justifiable need, individual by individual!!! After only 300,000 years we'll all be free!!! Let's convince juries to nullify our laws, case by case!!! Eventually they'll all be shitting in their drawers!!! I can visualize Loretta's soiled panties as I type this!!! I'm excited!!! It will be AWESOME!!!

 

Let's just sit on our asses and sign these stupid petitions, send letters and emails to our representatives whose votes are pre-determined by political affiliation, take a day off to yell and scream at them in committee hearings, lecturing them on theology and law that they do not believe in and never will. Let's do everything the various pro-2A groups tell us to do, and brag about it in these forums. That will show them!!!

 

I SIGNED THE PETITION!!! I EMAILED MY ASSEMBLYWOMAN!!!

 

But by no means should we simply vote them out.

 

That would be stupid, ignorant, counter-productive, and fatally injurious to our anointed pro-2A leadership which depends for their existence on our continued stupidity and subservience.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

The thought of "who is next" in the wings after Christie leaves office goes from bad to worse. I noticed this article in The Record today. 

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/stile-making-plans-for-new-jersey-after-chris-christie-1.1460300

[siderman 1,137]

The Jersey Devil is about to show himself in the form of a Demorat gov. We all know whats coming....and its gonna hurt.

[T Bill 649]

NJ's in the financial toilet already, Sweeney is pandering to the liberal and union vote. So more taxes, more people with money leaving, more debt, more crime, more stupid laws.  A snowball headed for hell. Even the left coast liberals who own real estate here are selling, ever wonder why? Hopefully, it will crash on the Democrat's watch, but I'm afraid they'll only turn to Washington for answers.  Look for Commifornia to do the same soon also.  Good decent law-abiding, tax paying citizens watching their life's investment, ruined by blowhard politicians sucking on the government teat.  Dame shame!

[jackandjill 683]

Depends who is the "huge minority" is. Look at the dopes, the Black Justice League (bwah!) protesting at Princeton University. Less than a hundred dopey college kids have a two day sit-in and the school president already caved to their "demands" of removing Woodrow Wilson from the building name. Less than 100 dopes.......we have a few thousand gun-owners on this and cannot get any traction with the slimes in Trenton. Is it the message, the delivery, or the numbers?

THAT is a great question.   10 women, DV victims, minorities or children victimized by NJ anti-2A, coming forward, will have FAR greater impact than 10,000 middle aged men running around screaming injustice. 

 

Victims such as Carol Browne need to get far more attention than they have.  And NJ 2A organizations need to highlight role of Women, role of  2A in fighting DV. 

 

Setup and Advertise special programs for DV Victims

 

* Legal help in getting FPID / Pistol Permits

* Free self defense training 

* Financial Help / Discounts for firearms

* Offer legal help through CCW process for DV victims. And highlight NJ hypocrisy when DV victims are not afforded constitutional rights.  

 

And I am looking at NRA. I dont remember a single NRA ad in NJ on TV highlighting how NJ caused murder of Carol Browne. Or advertising special programs for DV Victims. 

[Parker 213]

THAT is a great question.   10 women, DV victims, minorities or children victimized by NJ anti-2A, coming forward, will have FAR greater impact than 10,000 middle aged men running around screaming injustice. 

 

Victims such as Carol Browne need to great far more attention than they have.  And NJ 2A organizations need to highlight role of Women, role of  2A in fighting DV. 

 

Setup and Advertise special programs for DV Victims

 

* Legal help in getting FPID / Pistol Permits

* Free self defense training 

* Financial Help / Discounts for firearms

 

Agree.

 

Add Suzanne Bardzell's recent tragedy to the list along with Carol Bowne. 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/10/22/midland-park-stabbing/

[JohnnyB 4,322]

* Offer legal help through CCW process for DV victims. And highlight NJ hypocrisy when DV victims are not afforded constitutional rights.  

 

And I am looking at NRA. I dont remember a single NRA ad in NJ on TV highlighting how NJ caused murder of Carol Browne. Or advertising special programs for DV Victims. 

Huh?

 

         You did not see this one??   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e05GqzcaZ0

[jackandjill 683]

I didnt know it was in TV.. other than the usual Politician ads during elections, I havent seen that ad on TV. 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I didnt know it was in TV.. other than the usual Politician ads during elections, I havent seen that ad on TV. 

 

Watch the Fox News Channel. You'll definitely see it there, among others like it.  Where you won't see any of these are the liberal MSM channels.

[RootSki 5]

Christie is running for the PRESIDENT of the United States of America, someone needs to let his opposition know to hammer him on why he hasn't addressed this yet.

[Newtonian 453]

the problem will forever be that it is not a "priority" issue in NJ...

 

the percentage of people that 1) think you shouldn't have ANY guns coupled with the people that 2) own guns but think that the only legitimate use is sport far outweigh 3) true 2a supporters people that think you should be able to carry..

 

when you represent a huge minority it is hard to get politicians to listen..  

The facts do not bear out your conclusions. I posted something a while ago about the percentages of citizens, by state, with concealed carry permits. Here's the link. You'll see that less than 5% have permits in 17 states that are either shall-issue or de facto shall-issue. I'm excluding Alaska and Vermont, but I'll bet fewer than 5% of Vermonters carry except while hunting.

 

That's less than one in 20. You can't blame the lack of progress in this state on the fact that very few individuals care to arm themselves because that is the nation-wide norm. According to your theory the legislatures in at least 17 states (the courts in Illinois) could have shrugged off the "concealed carry vote" but didn't.

 

So much of the conventional wisdom surrounding guns is BS. The percentages for two states considered gun-unfriendly, Connecticut and Massachusetts, are 8.36 and 6.27, respectively, higher than Colorado, Virginia, Arizona, and Texas. Connecticut is less than 0.2% lower than gun-friendly Florida. 

 

Connecticut residents are 100% right when they demand repeal of spiteful, ineffective gun laws but let's maintain some sense of perspective. Gun rights initiatives in most states are on a completely different plane than they are here. They fight for the right to keep evil rifles and normal-capacity magazines; we beg for the right to buy lunch with handguns secured in our vehicles.

 

Operationally we don't have CC here because the legislature doesn't respect ANY rights. The idea of a right is it should be non-negotiable, that 19 people can't take it away from one person. Add tho this that our justice system heavily favors criminals over us, the national organizations have given up on New Jersey, and that we lack coherent, home-grown leadership on 2nd Amendment issues. 

[PD2K 115]

I'm surprised the originator of the petition closed it so early. 16k is kinda light compared when lefties are getting 50-100k for their anti 2A petitions.