HP vs Tipped Bullets

[almiz111 26]

Anybody know?

 

Are tipped bullets like Hornady Vmax, Amax, etc. considered to be hollow point? (Basically the nose is hollowed out and filled with plastic.)

 

Hornady tech support said 'no' and of course I'm not sure I believe them.

 

It's hell when you live in NJ!!

  

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I always used Hornady "Critical Defense / Duty."  I don't believe they are considered "hollow point."   See this thread. 

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I've heard conflicting opinions on that.  Isn't that a surprise when it comes to NJ gun laws!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

The letter in the other thread that was linked to, was solicited by the NJSPFU. However, it preceded the Aitken case by a number of years. The judge in the Aitken case interpreted the law to mean any expanding bullet. Whether that was precedent setting, I don't know. Remember, this is NJ. You own firearms at your own peril.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Tunaman 549]

Use Federal Guard Dog. 

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Use Federal Guard Dog. 

Wouldn't trust it to stop a threat properly.  Federal EFMJ is a little bit better.  

 

Still - they're designed to expand...

[checko 180]

I used to only load federal efmj but after looking at some ballistic tests I was not confident in the results. I've juat switched to Hornaday hollow points. I don't trust NJ not to jail me for the tipped bullets anyway. I'll just follow the rules

 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

 

[PD2K 115]

Since we're in NJ, I would err on the side of caution and consider them "hollow point." Who needs the hassle of getting arrested.

 

FYI I use Hornady Critical Duty as my SD/HD ammo.

[Tunaman 549]

Wouldn't trust it to stop a threat properly.  Federal EFMJ is a little bit better.  

 

Still - they're designed to expand...

Aren't the efmj hollow points?

[Tunaman 549]

I am thinking HST.  My bad.  Sorry.

[checko 180]

I thought the efmj was the same as guard dog

 

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[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

What's the big deal about using hollow points for self defense? It's completely legal unless you're carrying outside of your home, which we know is a moot point. There is no issue using hollow points in your home defense gun.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

What's the big deal about using hollow points for self defense? It's completely legal unless you're carrying outside of your home, which we know is a moot point. There is no issue using hollow points in your home defense gun.

THIS!!!

[Krdshrk 3,877]

I thought the efmj was the same as guard dog

 

 

Nope - they made guard dog with a lighter bullet and less of a powder charge to prevent overpenetration.  Guard dog 9mm is 105gr.  The EFMJ I have is 124gr +P 9mm.

 

I think they discontinued EFMJ though.

[checko 180]

 

I think they discontinued EFMJ though.

Ah. I figured they just changed the name. I still have 2 mags worth of efmj for my 1911. I had critical defense in my 9mm but I switched it over to American gunner hollow points

 

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[JackDaWack 2,895]

It's an irrelevant question. Any round designed to expand is a "DumDum" round and is thus restricted.

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

It's an irrelevant question. Any round designed to expand is a "DumDum" round and is thus restricted.

What do you mean restricted?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

What do you mean restricted?

Dum-Dum, Hollow points and Armor piercing bullets are all listed under 2c:29-3f

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

Dum-Dum, Hollow points and Armor piercing bullets are all listed under 2c:29-3f

Correct. However, if you keep reading, the statute states that there are exemptions to the statute you referred to. You may purchase hollow point ammo and keep it in your residence. You may transport it from the store you purchased it from, and travel home with it. You may also travel with it to the range for target shooting. Since the thread seems to be about self defense ammo, the op should not be worrying about whether or not hollow point ammo is legal, because in his case it is.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

 I didn't say they were illegal. The OP was trying to figure out if a Dum-Dum was considered a hollow point... which isn't going to change how he needs to meet the restrictions of 2c:39-3.

 

I figured why else would he be asking the question..

[robot_hell 72]

It's an irrelevant question. Any round designed to expand is a "DumDum" round and is thus restricted.

Wouldn't that include soft-points too?

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Wouldn't that include soft-points too?

NO! Soft point ammo is metal throughout the entire bullet and does not have any polymers, cuts in the metal jacket. etc. A lead round nose or semi wad cutter will expand more by nature of it being lead and softer VS. a FMJ bullet! There is no modification to make a soft point or full round nose lead bullet to make it expand more, it's the nature of the metal! It is when it is deliberately engineered by design to expand beyond any normal metal component it possesses that they can classify it as a Dum Dum or hollow point!

[PK90 3,570]

If Dum Dum and Hollow Point are both stated in the same sentence, I think the state recognizes them as different.

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

If Dum Dum and Hollow Point are both stated in the same sentence, I think the state recognizes them as different

Sent from an undisclosed location.

Or the state is retarded and doesn't understand a hollow point is a type of dumdum

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

@JohnnyB -  Soft nose bullets are, indeed, designed to expand. Albeit at a slower rate than a hollowpoint. The only bullets not meant to expand are FMJ's or monolithic hard cast bullets.

 

@JackDaWack - They are indeed two different things. DumDums were originally soft point or all lead that had the nose of the bullet cut/scored to facilitate expansion

 

To me, the above are classic understandings of bullet types and performance. How the state interprets them - or more importantly, individual prosecutors and judges is anybody's guess. It was fairly clear that the NJSP was trying to correctly interpret the statute by them soliciting the letter from the AFTE and that clarified things right up to the point where the Aitken judge decided to define DumDum as any expanding bullet. Once again, into the quagmire.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[JackDaWack 2,895]

It's been my understanding that both soft points and hollow points are types of dum dum rounds. I was pretty sure its just a common nomenclature for expanding bullets today. But it was a name for the hollow point and soft point bullets made at the dum dum facility waaaay back in the day.maybe not the traditional hollow points we know today, but they removed material from the tip.

[Bt Doctur 188]

I would tend to think that 8 .45 cal rounds of anything is going to do the job. solid, hollow, KTW or ap

[JohnnyB 4,325]

@JohnnyB -  Soft nose bullets are, indeed, designed to expand. Albeit at a slower rate than a hollowpoint. The only bullets not meant to expand are FMJ's or monolithic hard cast bullets.

 

@JackDaWack - They are indeed two different things. DumDums were originally soft point or all lead that had the nose of the bullet cut/scored to facilitate expansion

 

To me, the above are classic understandings of bullet types and performance. How the state interprets them - or more importantly, individual prosecutors and judges is anybody's guess. It was fairly clear that the NJSP was trying to correctly interpret the statute by them soliciting the letter from the AFTE and that clarified things right up to the point where the Aitken judge decided to define DumDum as any expanding bullet. Once again, into the quagmire.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Bob,

 

      I am well aware that soft nose bullets expand at a greater rate than FMJ! I was merely trying to point out that IMHO, they would not be considered HP or Dum Dum by the PRNJ! That was my only point!

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Bob,

 

      I am well aware that soft nose bullets expand at a greater rate than FMJ! I was merely trying to point out that IMHO, they would not be considered HP or Dum Dum by the PRNJ! That was my only point!

 

I understood that, but my point is that Aitken's judge's ruling lumps any bullet designed to expand in the same category, thus soft nose bullets would suffer the same prohibitions as hollow points et al.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

I understood that, but my point is that Aitken's judge's ruling lumps any bullet designed to expand in the same category, thus soft nose bullets would suffer the same prohibitions as hollow points et al.

Bob,

           How could any state or any 1/2 sane person call a soft nose bullet a HP or a Dum Dum! I doubt even New Jersey could get away with that one!