What would be the shortest NJ legal rifle?

[palmpilot 0]

I tried to search but was not able to find a similar thread. What could be a decent home defense short rifle?

The shortest the better.

 

Thanks!

PP.

[The_Matrix 105]

Its going to be one of the bullpup style rifles.  26 inches min.

I.e. Tavor, MSAR, etc

[NJGF 375]

A bullpup design like the IWI Tavor is only 26" long and makes it easier to maneuver in close quarters.

[JT Custom Guns 956]

16" min. BBL / 26" min. Overall

[High Exposure 5,662]

Here is a comparison photo of my issued Colt Commando SBR (11.5" barrel with stock fully collapsed), next to my personal MSAR Bullpup (16.5" barrel with fixed stock), and my HD rifle (an AR with a 16" barrel and stock pinned 1 click out):

 

Note that the MSAR is just a tad shorter than the SBR. The bullpups are essentialy an SBR sized gun that does not require any Federal tax stamp - making them NJ legal carbine in an SBR sized package.

 

Also note that my HD rifle is the longest of the three.

 

The reason for that choice is simple - there is no free lunch. For the shorter overall length of the bulpup design you are giving up ergonomics and effeciency which translates to slower manipulations - reloading, malfunction clearing, building stable shooting positions, etc....

 

That being said, a standard AR with an overall barrel length of 16" is more than adequate to use in a residential structure. I was issued a Colt 6921 for years before being issued the SBR. I have noticed zero difference in manuverability in any residential structure. Even though I have an SBR and the bulpup, my choice for my HD gun is still an AR (with a 14.5" barrel with permanently attached 1.5" muzzle device to make the legal 16" requirement) and a stock pinned one click out. A rifle significantly longer than either of the other two rifles I could choose.

 

In all my time carrying a 16" rifle, I have never wished for a shorter barrel or found it unwieldy during training or operationally. However, I have wished for a longer barrel a few times since getting the Colt SBR.

 

In my experience, unless you are spending an inordinate amount of time armed with a long gun while in a vehicle, or are planning on conducting tubular assaults - fighting in a bus, train, plane fuselage, or onboard ships - where the shorter overall length really shines due to all the confined spaces, a standard AR is the way to go.

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited November 30, 2015 by High Exposure

[OfcrFek 21]

Out of curiosity, why is there a rubber band on your AR's stock?

[High Exposure 5,662]

Holds the sling against the stock so it doesn't get hung up on the way out of the safe or the closet. One quick tug and the rubber band snaps, then I can sling into my carbine with no issues. A wrap of scotch or masking tape works well for that purpose as well.

[OfcrFek 21]

Nice. I actually have a similar problem with mine, and never thought of a solution like that. Time to see if I have some rubber bands on my desk.

[Schrödinger's cat 87]

I have the kel tec sub 2000

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

Holds the sling against the stock so it doesn't get hung up on the way out of the safe or the closet. One quick tug and the rubber band snaps, then I can sling into my carbine with no issues. A wrap of scotch or masking tape works well for that purpose as well.

H.E., that's freaking brilliant!! Great idea, I'm going to incorporate that one.

[High Exposure 5,662]

I wish I could take credit.

 

I learned it from Kyle Lamb during a Street Fighter course where every drill started sitting in the front seat of a car - if you don't keep your sling under control in the car it will hang up on you and that is a showstopper. Once you are out of the car, snap the rubber band and sling in.

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

BTW, I really like that MSAR. I've never handled one, but it is on my short list of carbines to try out.

[High Exposure 5,662]

I love it, it's a lot of fun to shoot and I like it much better than other bulpups I have handled - Tavor, FN FS2000, P90.

 

However, I advise against buying one as Microtech is no longer making them. Parts are proving impossible to source and third party vendors, such as RatWorx, are no longer developing and selling their parts. It is also different enough from the AUG that you can't use Steyr parts. I now shoot mine very little and baby it when I do because if something breaks on it, I am limited to the parts I have on hand to repair it.

 

I am hoping someone will buy the tooling and start making them again, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If you want to try it out, let me know and we will figure something out. You are more than welcome to give it a spin.

[mipafox 438]

Are you planning to use hearing protection with that 11.5" in a fight? Mine will loosen the teeth of my enemy if I miss him

[Displaced Texan 11,731]

That's extremely generous of you, H.E.. Thank you. I may take you up on that. I'll bring the SRS for you to take for a spin as well.

[High Exposure 5,662]

Are you planning to use hearing protection with that 11.5" in a fight? Mine will loosen the teeth of my enemy if I miss him

Yup. We have MSA Supreme headsets.

 

DT, sounds good.

[silverado427 10,682]

I would like to ask a question.  Are LE weapons exempt from the NJ AWB , pinned stocks & flash suppressors .

[High Exposure 5,662]

Yes. Weapons bought/owned by a Law Enforcement Agency are exempt from all state and federal prohibitions. Paperwork still needs to be completed for NFA purchases, but the Agency is listed as the owner, not an individual officer. The Agency then issues it to officers as it seems fit. This is not NJ specific, but nationwide.

[PK90 3,570]

NJ individual Officers can be the owner of "SAW"s. They need to submit two forms declaring that the purchase is for duty use.

[High Exposure 5,662]

I thought an officer can purchase with personal funds but technically the agency owns it and the Chief has to sign off on the paperwork.

 

Upon retirement, the "SAW" would have to be legally sold, surrendered to the agency, or the officer has to move to a state where ownership would be legal.

[mipafox 438]

I thought an officer can purchase with personal funds but technically the agency owns it and the Chief has to sign off on the paperwork.

 

Upon retirement, the "SAW" would have to be legally sold, surrendered to the agency, or the officer has to move to a state where ownership would be legal.

There's only one legal "SAW," so picking a state isn't the problem.

[High Exposure 5,662]

Ah, I took his "SAW" as a general example of an NFA weapon/accessory, not specifically an M249 LMG.

 

You could legally own a SAW in Kentucky or maybe PA, but not PRNJ as we have no provisions for NFA forearms.

[PK90 3,570]

I've sold Semi-automatic Weapons to NJ LEO'S using these two letters which was used during the Federal Ban.

http://colddeadhands.com/temp/LEO_Restricted_Letter.pdf

 

Sent from an undisclosed location.

 

 

[Blake 50]

My vote would be Tavor.  This is a really old pic but its a 16" tavir vs a 16" ar and 14.5" ar.

 

[RUTGERS95 890]

Holds the sling against the stock so it doesn't get hung up on the way out of the safe or the closet. One quick tug and the rubber band snaps, then I can sling into my carbine with no issues. A wrap of scotch or masking tape works well for that purpose as well.

I use velcro straps

[High Exposure 5,662]

I tried the velcro - used one of those cable organizer type straps and some of the slim green stuff you use for tying tomato plants to stakes. Neither released the sling as fast or as easy as the rubber and the velcro seperating was loud.

 

The Velcro did look neater than the rubber band though.