Catastrophic Pistol Failures

[n4p226r 105]

Gotchya.... I can only suspect, like everything else, money....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Money is exactly right. The problem is that kimbers don't cost the same as a rock island armory. For the price you would expect more. Their MO seems to be ship as many to the stores as possible and do the QC on the ones that find their way back. Fine for a range toy or safe queen. Not fine for a carry or HD gun (especially a 1911 which doesn't have the track record of more modern firearms with reliability.)

[n4p226r 105]

MIM parts structurally are different then tooled parts. Just like wood has a grain, so does metal. Any cast part lacks a true grain, which would give increased strength... As a result cast parts are more brittle, imperfections in the molding process can make them terribly brittle.

 

When these companies had to keep up with demand the cost to switch over to MIM was cheaper than buying new forging presses and molds.

 

Forged parts have a true grain, and if done correctly the grain takes on the shape of the object. If its CNC'd then the grain is planar and its weakness is splitting along the grain, cracking. Its much harder to crack this type. A press formed part requires much more machining after as well.

To be fair, cast and MIM are two different things. It wouldn't be fair to lump them together.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

To be fair, cast and MIM are two different things. It wouldn't be fair to lump them together.

Depends, the final product is structurally similar. They are different processes but the end result is the same.

[302w 83]

lol, yea, your old Revolver is most likely hand fitted. Just like my wingmaster from the 70's. Most production guns barely see a living person on the assembly line these days.

 

My 625 has MIM parts but you would be hard pressed to make it any better by simply switching out something for a tooled part without fitting said part.

Your 625 is absolutely fine with it's MIM parts. I dislike the firing pin not that it makes any difference, but the Hillary hole and garbage bluing on new guns is nonsense. I know yours is stainless but a new M14 will have it's bluing removed by hoppes.

[High Exposure 5,661]

H E - This is not directed specifically at you but a general statement about this thread. I've done failure analysis for a living and I haven't seen one bit of credible fact, including from you in this BS thread.

 

We know Glocks failed from unsupported chambers and some weak cases.

We know Glocks failed due to MIM Extractors.

 

Why are these Kimbers failing?

 

Edit at the request of the OP: It's not that the thread objective is BS but the lack of facts make posters opinions BS.

OS, I hear you - and I agree that this thread is silly, I said so in an early post. But I don't need that level of info to be comfortable with my decision. I am not going to solve their issues and there are eleventyhundred 1911 manufacturers out there. I don't need to buy a Kimber.

 

Again, my opinion is mine, it is based on my observations and experiences. It is a fact that I witnessed it, it is a fact that it happened. I will give the best info I have based on what I see. I won't lie or exaggerate - there is no need. The reader does not need to believe me and can dismiss my accounts out if hand if they wish - That is the reader's prerogative. Again, this is not Consumers Report or a Scientific Journal. It's a gun forum.

 

Of the Kimbers I have seen while training, a large percentage of them failed in a similar manner - small parts breakage: safety, extractor , ejector, trigger bar, takedown levers, etc... I don't know scientifically exactly why it failed. Was it an out of spec part? Was the frame out of spec placing too much strain on the in-spec part? A combo of the two? Was it inferior materials? Frankly, since it's not my gun, I don't care. I just know I don't want that aggravation in my life.

 

I also know it happened relatively often compared to other guns in a statistically small sample. I have also heard similar stories from people I trust who have a much larger data set (that is still small overall) to make me confident in my decision to not spend my hard earned money and gamble on a similar dud.

 

And you know what, I have yet to have a Kimber fail on me. Eureka! It worked

 

I also don't know exactly why EoTech optics, Taurus handguns, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, and Rock River ARs fail either, but I know they do. I have seen it repeatedly with my own eyes. I don't care if it is out of spec parts, badly engineered battery contacts, or substandard materials.

 

I will spend my money on items that don't have that reputation or I have observed fail repeatedly firsthand. And if someone asks I will tell them.

[bhunted 887]

HE, you misread Old School, (read the last sentence of post #29).. He didn't mean the thread is silly or BS. He questioned your evidence. There is nothing wrong with this thread if you can learn something.

Once, again, I'm not defending Kimber... I'm criticizing the way people perceive a product to be. Again, go on over to the Kimber forums and talk to them. There are guys there that carry them everyday and trust theor performance. Nobody is pushing people to buy a particular brand. But you keep over emphasizing how you will never buy one. Why are you so hell bent on demolishing this thread? I respect your opinion in light of your evidence. Let it play out and maybe we can all learn something.

[fishnut 2,358]

The only gun I have ever witnesses catastrophicly fail was a kimber 1911. I do not remember what model but it was a full size. The owner was dumping mag after mag through it untill the front sight flew off and the gun locked solid. He asked me for some gun oil to try and free the slide but was not successful. He left the range pretty disappointed with his gun. I also know someone who had a glock fail while taking fire on them due to a broken guide rod. But I was not there just heard the story about it and he vows never to own or carry a glock ever again

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Your 625 is absolutely fine with it's MIM parts. I dislike the firing pin not that it makes any difference, but the Hillary hole and garbage bluing on new guns is nonsense. I know yours is stainless but a new M14 will have it's bluing removed by hoppes.

Damn, lol. It took me a min. to figure out what a Hillary Hole is lol. I must be too young for that reference. I've been planning on removing the interlock in mine. Have heard stories of it engaging on its own while firing.

[Vlad G 345]

Mechanical devices fail? Stop the presses! people must quickly know about this!

 

An H.E. My Rock River AR works fine, you even played with it. Of course, the only thing that is RRA about is the stripped lower, but whatever .. 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Your RR is just like my Bushmaster!

[bhunted 887]

LOL, I'm not young and I don't get it either...

Damn, lol. It took me a min. to figure out what a Hillary Hole is lol. I must be too young for that reference. I've been planning on removing the interlock in mine. Have heard stories of it engaging on its own while firing.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Mechanical devices fail? Stop the presses! people must quickly know about this!

 

An H.E. My Rock River AR works fine, you even played with it. Of course, the only thing that is RRA about is the stripped lower, but whatever ..

I have an RRA with some parts switched out, but their problem was staking the gas key... Mine was well done... Others werent even punched...lol talk about a fckup. Small detail that costed RRA its reputation.

[302w 83]

LOL, I'm not young and I don't get it either...

I'm probably younger than both of you LOL.

[JohnnyB 4,320]

Not all Bushmasters were junk. Depends on when it was made.

[redwings9 5]

NP 4 please tell me you are joking when you say  "Not fine for a carry or HD gun (especially a 1911 which doesn't have the track record of more modern firearms with reliability.)" I assume you are speaking specifically about kimbers and not the 1911's in general which given the track record from WW1,WW2, Korea and Vietnam I think the record speaks for itself. As for Kimbers I have a few, all run very well get carried regularly and  if they didn't they would get sold. All of mine have thousands of rounds thru them and run like clock work with the exceptation of a 9MM which is too mag sensitive to piss around with.  Not trying to start an argument just an opinion.