Uncut Travis Haley's ND (Video)

[Sig226GuyNJ 128]

I know I'm supposed to type in a paragraph..... Just watch the video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs83TE7HJrY

[RecessedFilter 222]

I know he was demonstrating one [stupid] option of trigger discipline but god damnit, keep that finger OUT of the trigger guard bro!

[High Exposure 5,662]

I saw this the other day, made me chuckle. Didn't expect much more than that from a commo guy. There was no need for that AK to be in condition one for that bit of filming. The fact that no one jumped his shit over it is a whole other story. He has the audacity to threaten the crew when they call him on it...

 

If I was a betting man, I would put money that Fernando released that on purpose - Apparently Panteao and Haley are having a tiff:

 

http://panteao.com/discontinued-video-titles/

Make Ready with Travis Haley videos discontinued

 

When Travis Haley publicly stated that the Magpul videos he previously “created, produced, and directed” should not be purchased from Magpul because they are now 7 years old, that did not sit well with us. The videos Panteao Productions filmed with Travis were released in 2011. At what point would those videos be deemed outdated? Should every instructional video come with an expiration date? We don’t think so.

 

It’s the position of Panteao Productions that training videos do not come with an expiration date. While doctrine may change over the years and techniques may fall out of fashion, it’s still important to document an instructor’s course and training techniques. It’s a piece of history, giving us insight to what was taught at the time and why. In addition, the fundamentals are always the core of any firearms instruction. Unless humans sprout a third arm or leg, the fundamentals will remain the same.

 

The decision was made to discontinue the Travis Haley videos and remove them from the Panteao website. They were pulled on January 1, 2015. We wish Travis well in his ventures.

[redwings9 5]

This is  beyond stupid,first teaching that method for use in combat or otherwise is bullshit, as indicated  by HE demonstrating this in firing condition goes way beyond stupid.

[NYMetsFan86 9]

......well thats certainly what NOT to do.....

[djg0770 481]

Dumbass.

[n4p226r 105]

Am I wrong in finding this entire issue seriously overblown? I mean mistakes were made but I assumed he was human. Not cyborg.

[High Exposure 5,662]

I think it is pretty serious. If I was in a class he was teaching and he did that, I would walk out. That is Unsat.

 

If this happened next to you at the range, or on the firing line at a class or comp, would you think it was overblown to give him a piece of your mind?

[redwings9 5]

N4P lets look at it this way, is what he advocating/teaching even remotely relavant to those they are trying to reach with videos such as this?

It is not even a sound practice under the duress of fire and or immediate contact for troops in the field.   The ND  is a whole other problem which clearly shows the error of advocating this bullshit. This occurred under a controlled no stress environment so now lets throw direct fire and contact in and see what happens...... JMOP

[n4p226r 105]

I think it is pretty serious. If I was in a class he was teaching and he did that, I would walk out. That is Unsat.

 

If this happened next to you at the range, or on the firing line at a class or comp, would you think it was overblown to give him a piece of your mind?

I'm not saying that what he did was acceptable. Not by even the slightest bit. I would assume whatever point he was trying to make in that video could have been done with an empty chamber. And clearing and making it safe and showing that on video would have been the best thing to do. I just feel the entire witch hunt/ Internet bull is overblown. It seems people want it to be more than it is because it's Travis Haley.

 

I look at this as a big mistake made by a guy that should have known better that was probably a little complacent. Nobody was hurt, thank god, but it was a human error. what's worse to me was in the uncut video you can see his finger go right to the trigger well before the ND.

 

Would this video make me think twice about taking one of his classes? I'm not too sure. Possibly. I think a lot of what I read recently makes me question a lot of what I see from "national" instructors. He always seemed like one of the better trainers, but then again if I had my pick I think Kyle Defoor would be the next class i took.

[n4p226r 105]

N4P lets look at it this way, is what he advocating/teaching even remotely relavant to those they are trying to reach with videos such as this?

It is not even a sound practice under the duress of fire and or immediate contact for troops in the field. The ND is a whole other problem which clearly shows the error of advocating this bullshit. This occurred under a controlled no stress environment so now lets throw direct fire and contact in and see what happens...... JMOP

I don't think he was advocating any of what he was showing. It seems quite the opposite to me. I thought he was showing what not to do. Any he apparently did a good job showing why you should not do it.

[redwings9 5]

 JMOP but......Here's what NOT TO DO keep your finger out of the trigger guard end of teaching moment. There is no way I believed  the MC trained him that way.  And he is certainly showing different trigger  finger placements for use during active engagement.

 

"Old manual arms" For who the NVA.  Hopefully he was a point man because if he shot me I would be extremely pissed, but then given he had an AK during my time who the hell would know.  

 

Finally lets discount the ND is what he showing at all relevant to sound,safe training for combat or otherwise? In my opinion no. 

[High Exposure 5,662]

I like Travis Haley. I don't agree with everything he advocates (his penchant to speed safety/holster drives me bananas), and he can get into some really esoteric shit, but he seems like a good dude. I think his reputation is a bit overinflated for a commo guy in a recon unit, but that's not his fault.

 

I don't know anything about a bigger Internet kerfuffle over this. I haven't heard about a dogpile or anything. The Panteao issue was a separate thing that I discovered when looking for one of his videos on their site - although I do think that the release of this screw-up from one of their videos was a deliberate twist of the knife.

 

I don't think TH was teaching either of those two methods as acceptable. I think he was demonstrating old school techniques that were used in the past to overcome the challenge of the pain-in-the-ass safety on an AK. I think he was showing "what not to do" even if it was an acceptable method in the past. (People still teach those two methods to this day when instructing on the MP5. It was de rigueur in the late 80's and has never been corrected. I was taught them in 2005 at a SWAT CQB school by the FBI).

 

The issue was he was demonstrating these things with an unnecessarily hot gun.

 

What do you think would happen if you had an ND like that on the line while TH was instructing? I bet he would be in your face with a quickness and you would have a long lonely rides home to think about what you did.

[n4p226r 105]

I like Travis Haley. I don't agree with everything he advocates (his penchant to speed safety/holster drives me bananas), and he can get into some really esoteric shit, but he seems like a good dude. I think his reputation is a bit overinflated for a commo guy in a recon unit, but that's not his fault.

 

I don't know anything about a bigger Internet kerfuffle over this. I haven't heard about a dogpile or anything. The Panteao issue was a separate thing that I discovered when looking for one of his videos on their site - although I do think that the release of this screw-up from one of their videos was a deliberate twist of the knife.

 

I don't think TH was teaching either of those two methods as acceptable. I think he was demonstrating old school techniques that were used in the past to overcome the challenge of the pain-in-the-ass safety on an AK. I think he was showing "what not to do" even if it was an acceptable method in the past. (People still teach those two methods to this day when instructing on the MP5. It was de rigueur in the late 80's and has never been corrected. I was taught them in 2005 at a SWAT CQB school by the FBI).

 

The issue was he was demonstrating these things with an unnecessarily hot gun.

 

What do you think would happen if you had an ND like that on the line while TH was instructing? I bet he would be in your face with a quickness and you would have a long lonely rides home to think about what you did.

Agreed. I suppose you haven't read the Facebook comments on his pages and all the remix videos from this.

[High Exposure 5,662]

No facebook for me.

 

Facebook is the devil.

[djg0770 481]

I don't know this guy from Adam so I have no axe to grind beyond "safety" and none of what he was doing can be construed as safe. His finger was in and out of the trigger guard with the safety both on and off several times and it was CLEAR to me that he was violating a basic safety rule WHILE he knew the gun was loaded.