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IO AK-47-c


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#1 petros600

petros600

Posted 12 December 2009 - 07:15 PM

I went to Butch's in Vineland today and they had an IO ak47 for sale for $449. They price is very good but was surprised that they selling an AK-47 (receiver is engraved AK 47-C) :shock: .
My favorite gun store is my house.

Prices are low, and service is impeccable. And the hours are incredible, they're always open when I show up

#2 Maksim

Maksim
  • LocationEast Windsor, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC Ask me to check it out.

Posted 12 December 2009 - 08:49 PM

Yes, you are right. I would not want to be the test case for NJ having kalashnikov stamped with AK 47 on the receiver.

#3 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:54 PM

how many did you buy ;)

#4 petros600

petros600

Posted 12 December 2009 - 10:08 PM

they had only one but i didnt get it, I am happy with my VEPR!!!
They have also a PSL for $999
My favorite gun store is my house.

Prices are low, and service is impeccable. And the hours are incredible, they're always open when I show up

#5 coldsolderjoint

coldsolderjoint
  • LocationKeansburg

Posted 13 December 2009 - 12:54 AM

they had only one but i didnt get it, I am happy with my VEPR!!!
They have also a PSL for $999


PSL for $1000!?

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php ... ts_id/2392

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/DRA-GUN-B.aspx
Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyways.

#6 Maksim

Maksim
  • LocationEast Windsor, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC Ask me to check it out.

Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:42 AM

More important question... what Vepr do you have? =) 223? 308? Super Vepr? Vepr 1? Vepr 2?

#7 petros600

petros600

Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:55 AM

Vepr II in 223 & 7.62
still looking for the 5.45
In my opinion one of the best made AK
I will get some pics tomorrow Maksim and post them
My favorite gun store is my house.

Prices are low, and service is impeccable. And the hours are incredible, they're always open when I show up

#8 Maksim

Maksim
  • LocationEast Windsor, NJ
  • Home Range:CJRPC Ask me to check it out.

Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:14 AM

Vepr II in 223 & 7.62
still looking for the 5.45
In my opinion one of the best made AK
I will get some pics tomorrow Maksim and post them



Nice. I have the first one with wood stocks. I reallllly want the Super Vepr in a 308 and 223. They have a few in Ukraine but would be tough to bring them here.

#9 Mauser88

Mauser88

Posted 13 December 2009 - 07:13 AM

I went to Butch's in Vineland today and they had an IO ak47 for sale for $449. They price is very good but was surprised that they selling an AK-47 (receiver is engraved AK 47-C) :shock: .


Why is that? Show me the law that states an AK can't be stamped AK.

The law clearly states an AR15 can't be stamped that way but I've never read a law that say that about an AK.

My Bulgy 5.45 Krinkov is built on an OOW receiver stamped AK-47S. Receiver was transfered through a NJ FFL.
There's hope with a scope!! Hurdle the dead, and Trample the weak!

#10 PK90

PK90

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  • LocationArizona
  • Home Range:The Desert

Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:14 AM

+1

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#11 HODGIE

HODGIE
  • LocationNE PA
  • Home Range:My front lawn

Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:55 AM

IO ak's tend to be problematic anyway better off staying away.
Their main gun smiths left about a year ago and their quality went down the bowl.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"-MLK
 


#12 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:38 PM

I went to Butch's in Vineland today and they had an IO ak47 for sale for $449. They price is very good but was surprised that they selling an AK-47 (receiver is engraved AK 47-C) :shock: .


Why is that? Show me the law that states an AK can't be stamped AK.

The law clearly states an AR15 can't be stamped that way but I've never read a law that say that about an AK.

My Bulgy 5.45 Krinkov is built on an OOW receiver stamped AK-47S. Receiver was transfered through a NJ FFL.



when i read

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms


I assume they mean that LITERALLY.. meaning that any firearm that IS an "AK" would be prohibited.. meaning an "AK47" "AK100" etc... If a firearm shares similarities with an AK such as action shape etc.. but is NOT an AK due to being another rifle (Saiga for example) then it is STILL NOT an AK.. a Saiga is NOT an "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" because its a Saiga... an "ak47" IS an "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" because it is so labeled one...

#13 Mauser88

Mauser88

Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:53 PM

Then you would be wrong. By your definition ALL AK's would be illegal. I read nothing in that definition that specifically states that a receiver stamped AK47 would be illegal. The NJAWB bans specifically by name, not type.

If banned by type, then no AR's, FAL's and so forth would be legal.

As I stated my dealer and PK90 have no problem transfering any AK post ban type stamped AK47-S or O or whatever.
There's hope with a scope!! Hurdle the dead, and Trample the weak!

#14 HODGIE

HODGIE
  • LocationNE PA
  • Home Range:My front lawn

Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:06 PM

As I stated my dealer and PK90 have no problem transfering any AK post ban type stamped AK47-S or O or whatever.


Not saying your wrong but I know of several dealers that will not touch any Variant stamped with AK-47,
and It's exactly because of what's going on here, no one seems to know what the law is, everyone seems to interpret
it differently which is not how the law works.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"-MLK
 


#15 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:53 PM

Then you would be wrong. By your definition ALL AK's would be illegal. I read nothing in that definition that specifically states that a receiver stamped AK47 would be illegal. The NJAWB bans specifically by name, not type.

If banned by type, then no AR's, FAL's and so forth would be legal.

As I stated my dealer and PK90 have no problem transfering any AK post ban type stamped AK47-S or O or whatever.



RIGHT it bans by NAME...

that is EXACTLY why im saying something NAMED "AK-47-C" IS illegal and Wasr (for example) is not..

one IS called an AK which is BANNED BY name under NJ law..
the other is NOT an AK it is a WASR so its legal?

by YOUR thoughts what AK IS illegal? and why?

again i am NOT saying you are wrong.. the way i explained it has been my understanding for some time.. if im wrong im wrong.. but IF im wrong i want to understand why im wrong..

#16 Mauser88

Mauser88

Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:11 PM

For the same reason the AR types that are not stamped AR15 are legal. If the receiver is stamped "AR15" it's illegal correct?

If it's stamped XM15 or LAR15 it would then be legal right? Why because it's banned by name not type.

"ALL Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" is how the law is worded. It doesn't state if the receiver is stamped "AK" then it's illegal.

If you take the wording literally then WASR10's and Saiga's would be illegal as they are "AK" type firearms in my opinion. The actions are the same.
There's hope with a scope!! Hurdle the dead, and Trample the weak!

#17 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:21 PM

For the same reason the AR types that are not stamped AR15 are legal. If the receiver is stamped "AR15" it's illegal correct?

If it's stamped XM15 or LAR15 it would then be legal right? Why because it's banned by name not type.

"ALL Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" is how the law is worded. It doesn't state if the receiver is stamped "AK" then it's illegal.

If you take the wording literally then WASR10's and Saiga's would be illegal as they are "AK" type firearms in my opinion. The actions are the same.



if we assume that Avtomat Kalashnikov is a NAME.. we KNOW that AK is a NAME just like AR is.. we also know that receivers are not stamped Avtomat Kalashnikov that i know of at least.. so thats why im saying a receiver stamped AK IS an Avtomat Kalashnikov as defined by law.. AK MEANS Avtomat Kalashnikov... Saiga does not.. WASR does not.. the reason saying all guns that share that action are covered doesnt work is this.. most modern firearms share similar actions.. exactly how similar is up for debate.. but think about this..

IS an AK-47-C an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
well since AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikov.. i would say that it is.. it is in the sense that it shares the same NAME as a NAMED banned weapon..

Is a Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
NO.. its a Saiga..
Is it substantially identical? that depends.. go count your parts.. as long as it does not have too many evil features then it is NOT by law considered identical..

Butch is an awesome guy.. i do NOT envision him breaking the law.. this IS simply how i understand the law..

#18 Mauser88

Mauser88

Posted 13 December 2009 - 04:48 PM

For the same reason the AR types that are not stamped AR15 are legal. If the receiver is stamped "AR15" it's illegal correct?

If it's stamped XM15 or LAR15 it would then be legal right? Why because it's banned by name not type.

"ALL Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" is how the law is worded. It doesn't state if the receiver is stamped "AK" then it's illegal.

If you take the wording literally then WASR10's and Saiga's would be illegal as they are "AK" type firearms in my opinion. The actions are the same.



if we assume that Avtomat Kalashnikov is a NAME.. we KNOW that AK is a NAME just like AR is.. we also know that receivers are not stamped Avtomat Kalashnikov that i know of at least.. so thats why im saying a receiver stamped AK IS an Avtomat Kalashnikov as defined by law.. AK MEANS Avtomat Kalashnikov... Saiga does not.. WASR does not.. the reason saying all guns that share that action are covered doesnt work is this.. most modern firearms share similar actions.. exactly how similar is up for debate.. but think about this..

IS an AK-47-C an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
well since AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikov.. i would say that it is.. it is in the sense that it shares the same NAME as a NAMED banned weapon..

Is a Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
NO.. its a Saiga..
Is it substantially identical? that depends.. go count your parts.. as long as it does not have too many evil features then it is NOT by law considered identical..

Butch is an awesome guy.. i do NOT envision him breaking the law.. this IS simply how i understand the law..


Maybe, maybe not. Don't know Butch but I know my FFL and PK90. PK90 is a NJ FFL dealer and LEO. I trust his judgement 100%.

Neither would risk their license or freedom without checking with the NJSP as to the legality of selling AK types marked AK47-C or AK47-S.

However I guess we will never know for sure unless it's tested in a NJ Court of law.

In your opinion would an M14S be legal in NJ? The law reads M14, not M14S and since it's banned by name IMHO it would be NJ legal.
There's hope with a scope!! Hurdle the dead, and Trample the weak!

#19 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:01 PM

For the same reason the AR types that are not stamped AR15 are legal. If the receiver is stamped "AR15" it's illegal correct?

If it's stamped XM15 or LAR15 it would then be legal right? Why because it's banned by name not type.

"ALL Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" is how the law is worded. It doesn't state if the receiver is stamped "AK" then it's illegal.

If you take the wording literally then WASR10's and Saiga's would be illegal as they are "AK" type firearms in my opinion. The actions are the same.



if we assume that Avtomat Kalashnikov is a NAME.. we KNOW that AK is a NAME just like AR is.. we also know that receivers are not stamped Avtomat Kalashnikov that i know of at least.. so thats why im saying a receiver stamped AK IS an Avtomat Kalashnikov as defined by law.. AK MEANS Avtomat Kalashnikov... Saiga does not.. WASR does not.. the reason saying all guns that share that action are covered doesnt work is this.. most modern firearms share similar actions.. exactly how similar is up for debate.. but think about this..

IS an AK-47-C an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
well since AK stands for Avtomat Kalashnikov.. i would say that it is.. it is in the sense that it shares the same NAME as a NAMED banned weapon..

Is a Saiga an Avtomat Kalashnikov?
NO.. its a Saiga..
Is it substantially identical? that depends.. go count your parts.. as long as it does not have too many evil features then it is NOT by law considered identical..

Butch is an awesome guy.. i do NOT envision him breaking the law.. this IS simply how i understand the law..


Maybe, maybe not. Don't know Butch but I know my FFL and PK90. PK90 is a NJ FFL dealer and LEO. I trust his judgement 100%.

Neither would risk their license or freedom without checking with the NJSP as to the legality of selling AK types marked AK47-C or AK47-S.

However I guess we will never know for sure unless it's tested in a NJ Court of law.

In your opinion would an M14S be legal in NJ? The law reads M14, not M14S and since it's banned by name IMHO it would be NJ legal.

i follow that law in the EXACT word as it is written.. and that is this.. IMHO of course.. and no i in NO way claim to be an expert or anything like that..

1. Is the firearm SPECIFICALLY named as banned.. since we know that list is a name list you follow it literally..
Yes) Illegal
No) Se question 2

2. Is it substantially identical AS WORDED by the law (in regards to items such as flash suppressors, detachable magazine, etc...
Yes) you can NOT have this firearm legally
No) This firearm is legal under NJ law as i understand it..

that is how i would view the situation...

#20 HODGIE

HODGIE
  • LocationNE PA
  • Home Range:My front lawn

Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

As far as I am concerned there are enough variants of all models out there that do not have AK stamped on the receiver So one should be able to get what you want. No reason to get yourself in any type of trouble with the state over this, unless someone can prove it to me 100% which no one can I will stay away until I get to PA.

Again the law is absolute not left up to ones interpretation and that's all I see here.
No disrespect to PK90 in any way, I have several cops in my family, have many as friends and know a ton of gun dealers they all do not know everything and some less then you would like to think.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"-MLK
 


#21 matty

matty
  • Home Range:CJRPC

Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:15 PM

Actually the Named Evil List says M14S not M14, I just double checked it from the NJSP firearms unit page. Didn't the Clinton admin order the destruction of a bunch of M14s (plural) rather than have them go to DCM/CMP?

#22 Mauser88

Mauser88

Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:17 PM

[quote name="Damagedworld"][quote name="Mauser88"][quote name="Damagedworld"]

What ever works for you. Me? I'll go by my yellow form as NJ legal. I purchased it in NJ from a NJ FFL dealer regardless of how the receiver is stamped. As far as I'm concerned if it's in legal post ban configuration it is NOT substantially equal to any AK on the NJAWB.

My dealer and PK90 are my "go to" standard for what's legal and illegal in NJ.
There's hope with a scope!! Hurdle the dead, and Trample the weak!

#23 petros600

petros600

Posted 14 December 2009 - 03:19 PM

I agree that Butch's is a great shop and i cant see them selling something illegal but my concern(if i was buying it) when i show up at the range and the people there calling the cops thinking that i have and AK47. (It happen to me with my VZ58 in a Atlantic County Range). The last thing i want is to have to argue with the local authorities what is legal or have to hire an attorney for $300 per hour.
Again the reason for this thread was to inform everyone(if you in the market for one) what Butch's had available for sale(at a very good price) and my initial shock to see it there.
My favorite gun store is my house.

Prices are low, and service is impeccable. And the hours are incredible, they're always open when I show up

#24 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:14 PM

I agree that Butch's is a great shop and i cant see them selling something illegal but my concern(if i was buying it) when i show up at the range and the people there calling the cops thinking that i have and AK47. (It happen to me with my VZ58 in a Atlantic County Range). The last thing i want is to have to argue with the local authorities what is legal or have to hire an attorney for $300 per hour.
Again the reason for this thread was to inform everyone(if you in the market for one) what Butch's had available for sale(at a very good price) and my initial shock to see it there.



was it THE atlantic county range? only reason i ask is i shoot there often and have had my Saiga out on several occasions and never had issue.. we should go out and shoot there sometime if you are a member... and if you dont mind me asking.. what was the outcome of the police coming? i couldnt even imagine..

#25 petros600

petros600

Posted 15 December 2009 - 12:35 AM

It was Atlantic county range, next time i see u i will give u the details. Do u still go to Cardo's?
My favorite gun store is my house.

Prices are low, and service is impeccable. And the hours are incredible, they're always open when I show up

#26 Guest__*

Guest__*

Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:03 AM

It was Atlantic county range, next time i see u i will give u the details. Do u still go to Cardo's?



i have not been for a few months.. ive been spending a lot of time at the gym gym.. doing some running and lifting to build some strength and cardio.. i felt like i hit a wall with training.. and like i was as good as i could get at that time... but my strength and conditioning were holding me back from going forward.. i hope to pick it back up soon! still go to the place in SP? my friend matt said he saw you there sometimes.. it is supposed to be a nice spot to train..

nice to see someone on the forum i know! lol




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