Ray Ray's Zombie Apocolypse thread

[bbk 188]

Probably the backstop is not suited for higher powered rifles

[tommy3rd 132]

no rifle??

 

No rifles, unless they shot pistol calibers. ie Kel-tecs, Cx4s, HiPoint carbines

Sig556 pistol is a pistol caliber, so an AR-15 shooting 5.56 should be good, right?

[vjf915 456]

So the best thing to do for that is have ONE person set the targets up, then sit it out for the practice. That way nobody storming in knows where the targets are.

[fliks 20]

just an fyi, fellas: I was looking for a place to shoot up at the Poconos when I come visit some family there. I found this guy with a private range and I just got off the phone with him. he said he just got done building a "zombie course" and he will also be expanding it. I told him about the forum and he was very interested. He'll probably come on in a few days to ask for ideas/opinions. he's also building a new web site that'll be geared more toward experienced shooters & concentrating on the "zombie course". so sometime in the future, even though someone said getting us forum members together is like herding cats, maybe we could have a group outing over there.

 

http://www.poconoshooting.com/

[GoNRA 12]

Shitttt, might take a trip out there if you guys set up something cool like that. Will be well worth the trip it sounds like.

[dave545 15]

:shock: :shock: LOOK AT HIS PRICES 20$ FOR 50 .22LR

HES CRAZY

[fliks 20]

the prices are mostly for gun rental & range use. it's kinda geared for newbies now. the deal is different if you bring your own gun/ammunition. you can call him. he does it on a per person/per group basis. sounded like a nice guy....

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I just chatted with my "contact", I'll be meeting him at the range tomorrow. I'll keep my northern zombie squad in the loop. Get ready guys, here we come! I'm guessing early October for the first

"zombie shootout"!!!

[Maksim 1,504]

humn, I wonder if we can do a USPSA stage afterwards with zombies......

[tommy3rd 132]

the deal is different if you bring your own gun/ammunition.

well, his website says "no outside ammo"(under range rules). In other words, you have to buy ammo from him at his prices.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

the deal is different if you bring your own gun/ammunition.

well, his website says "no outside ammo"(under range rules). In other words, you have to buy ammo from him at his prices.

 

Trying to rip off the city folk, like us JerZey boys! I'll pass.

[tsafa 2]

just an fyi, fellas: I was looking for a place to shoot up at the Poconos when I come visit some family there. I found this guy with a private range and I just got off the phone with him. he said he just got done building a "zombie course" and he will also be expanding it. I told him about the forum and he was very interested. He'll probably come on in a few days to ask for ideas/opinions. he's also building a new web site that'll be geared more toward experienced shooters & concentrating on the "zombie course". so sometime in the future, even though someone said getting us forum members together is like herding cats, maybe we could have a group outing over there.

 

http://www.poconoshooting.com/

 

Hi px4storm,

 

This is Bill from Poconoshooting. It was nice taking to you today. Thanks for posting the info here and sending me the link to this forum.

 

I got a new site up relative to the Zombie Range.

 

http://www.poconotactical.com/

 

Both the webpage and the range itself will be underdevelopment for the next few months. Both are usable in their current form.

 

A few words about me so everyone know where I am shooting from (pun intended)

 

I'm just a regular guy, with a regular job that likes to shoot and hated living in anti-gun NYC where I was born and grew up. I bought a property out in PA so I can own and shoot guns. At some point I decided I wanted to both expand the range for my personal use and share the fun with other people. I have always believed that the key to keeping and expanding gun rights is to bring in new people (who don't shoot) and get them involved in shooting and gun ownership. The newbies and inexperienced shooters are most important because they will turn into voters for pro-gun rights candidates. This is one of the reasons I encourage people to bring their wives, girlfriends and even kids. That's right... on my range minors are allowed to shoot too under my guidance and supervision. Those kids are future voters!

 

Now... with regard to the prices... a very fair question. My biggest cost is not the ammo. Not even the guns. My biggest cost is Time. From the time the newbie arrives at my range it typically takes 90 minutes to shoot 100 rounds of .22. When that 90 minutes has finished the average wife, girlfriend or 10 year old can now safely and competently shoot a .22 rifle and a .22 revolver. All for the cost of $50. That money does not go and sit in a bank account. It gets reinvested back into the Range in the form of expansion and more guns.

 

What about Advanced Shooters on a Zombie course? I did some test runs today over the 150 foot course I have so far to see how it would likely run. In order for this to work, I, as the Range Safety Officer, would have to follow the shooter through the course. Unlike, a regular range, it will take 3 to 4 times longer to shoot the same quantity of ammo as the shooter searches out the targets down range. This is with the range free of any foliage. When the bushes start to grow in (and I lengthen the range) it will easily take 10 times longer. Also, unlike a regular pistol or rifle range, there can only be one active shooter at a time on a Zombie Course because the shooter is moving. Having two active shooters presents a danger I can not control since their is no fixed line.

 

So as you can see... even with advanced shooters, the range time consumption goes up on a Zombie Course. That also means that since I must be present on the Zombie Course, I can not be training those all important newbies. It is worth noting also that at that money paid by those newbies has gone into building the Zombie Course. It cost $2,000 just to rent the excavator over the weekend and dig out the course... Not to mention the 30 hours I spent doing the digging. If I had paid a contractor it would have cost upwards of $6,000 just for the 150 feet... and I still want to dig out another 300 feet. Then there is the cost of the steel targets I would like to get that run an average of $150 to $200 each ($400 for the real good ones). I will need at least 20 of them. Preferable 40. That's 8K for the cheaper ones.

 

I don't want to publicize it on the webpage, but if someone wants to bring there own guns and ammo, I will give them a discount. However, like I mention since I buy ammo in bulk, my biggest cost is not ammo. It is time. To give an example, I normally charge $30 for a box of 9mm with a gun to shoot the 50 rounds. If someone wants to come to my range with their own gun and ammo to shoot, I would charge $20 for every box they shoot. They get a $10 discount for the 9mm.

 

I just wanted to lay all my cards on the table, because I respect you guys. Now that you all know what is involved, I am open to any and all suggestions and advice. In the meantime... I will start reading through this long thread to see what I can pick up in the form of advice.

 

Thank You Kindly,

Bill Tsafa

http://www.poconotactical.com/

[EchoMirage 137]

what if some of the members of NJ ZED (as we're called for now) donate our time to helping you build/maintain the range. we can have a work weekend, like at CR. get something done, and perhaps get the members a discount? im laid off alot now, and probably have plenty of time coming up, including during the week. i wouldnt be against taking a ride to help build a course, give ideas/plans, etc.

[fliks 20]

I can probably make some time during the day on a weekday sometime. or we can do it on a weekend, I'm sure that's better for most people. you could also try and arrange something with Bill to go by yourself (or anyone else), if you've got free time on your hands...

[Krdshrk 3,877]

[tsafa 2]

what if some of the members of NJ ZED (as we're called for now) donate our time to helping you build/maintain the range. we can have a work weekend, like at CR. get something done, and perhaps get the members a discount? im laid off alot now, and probably have plenty of time coming up, including during the week. i wouldnt be against taking a ride to help build a course, give ideas/plans, etc.

 

Having one or two of you help me over a holiday weekend would be a great idea. I sometimes get groups of 12 newbies or more. I wouldn't charge anything to let you shoot on the range on that day. Only issue is, I don't know when those people will show up. Most people just call me about an hour ahead and ask if the range is available. So it would be a matter of sitting around for hours waiting for people to show up. Sure you would shoot some rounds, but when your ammo runs out... your still waiting for people to show up. This idea has some potential and I will think about it some more. Thanks very much for the suggestion.

 

For now the biggest issue is moving a few hundred tons of dirt. It would take a thousand of us, working everyday, months to complete with pick and shovel. The easiest way to get that done is by renting a big expensive machine. I already charged up 2k this month on my credit card for the machine to dig out the 150 feet. I will have to wait until next month to bring the machine back when I have some more money. I don't know how, this will go over... but since the problem right now is financing the continued construction... I am thinking if anyone wanted to contribute $100... I would give them one whole month of unlimited shooting on the range during the weekend with their own guns and ammo. $200 would get them two months of weekend shooting (10 am to 5pm).... $300 for three months... and so on... If 20 people committed to this and came over this weekend with money, I would be able to bring the excavator back next weekend and dig another 200 feet. That way you would have the use of longer range for the money you put in. If you guys want, you can come to the property this weekend and look over the work I have done so far. I will be able to better explain where it is going.

[vjf915 456]

I understand you are trying to get this started, but it might be hard to get somebody to pay $100 for a month. I dont remember if Dix is 100 or 200 yards, but they charge ~$60 a year.

[tsafa 2]

I understand you are trying to get this started, but it might be hard to get somebody to pay $100 for a month. I dont remember if Dix is 100 or 200 yards, but they charge ~$60 a year.

 

I understand... but unless the Obama administration is willing to subsidize the range...NOT... the range has to finance itself... otherwise there can be no Zombie Range. It may turn out that in the longrun only newbies will be willing to spend the money to keep it going, as they have been. In that case I will have to shift more time and resources to fit their needs. I don't know yet, I am working this out as I go along. The feedback I am getting here is a great help me already. Thanks much.

[fliks 20]

unless the Obama administration is willing to subsidize the range

hmmmmmm

I think the zombie course will be a work in progress for sometime. Bill would have to subsidize it by teaching noobs for a while and investing slowly in the zombie course... just my thought...

[Wolfy 51]

Forget Obama did you ask the NRA if they have any financial assitance? Would you be interested in a NJGF shoot where we can come for the day and shoot as a group?

[tsafa 2]

unless the Obama administration is willing to subsidize the range

hmmmmmm

I think the zombie course will be a work in progress for sometime. Bill would have to subsidize it by teaching noobs for a while and investing slowly in the zombie course... just my thought...

 

yahh... that is what I figured... :cry:

 

...but it seems to be working... at slow pace... which is better then no progress at all.

 

Forget Obama did you ask the NRA if they have any financial assitance? Would you be interested in a NJGF shoot where we can come for the day and shoot as a group?

 

I sent the NRA an email regarding the mater. Waiting to hear back.

 

We can do a group shoot. On a wed I would ask for $400. On a weekend I would ask for $600. If you can get 20 people in your group that is only $30 per person on a weekend. We can get up to five experienced shooters on the line at a time. If you guys want to try the Zombie Course, all other shooting must stop. We can run it from 11 till 5pm with your guys bringing your own guns and ammo. That money would help me get the excavator back to the range sooner rather then later.

[Wolfy 51]

For $600 we can shoot the zombie course all day? We need to do a field trip.

 

What is the address? I want to put it in my Evo.

[tsafa 2]

For $600 we can shoot the zombie course all day? We need to do a field trip.

 

Sure. Just remember that for safety reasons, only one person can shoot on the Zombie Course at a time. During that time the pistol and rifle range are closed because the entrance to the Zombie course is half way down the rifle range.

 

Shooting starts after 11 am, so we don't become a noise nuisance and can run till about 5pm when the sun starts setting. After, we can lock up the guns, start a campfire and pop a few beers, invite some girls to dance around the campfire

 

The address is 1574 Route 196, Tobyhanna, PA 18466. It may not come up on mapquest because it is less then a year old. I don't post the address on the poconotactical.com webpage because I don't want people just showing up. The range is only operational when I am there.

 

I will leave it up to you guys to work out among yourselves which day you want to come. When you do so, please have one person in your group collect the money in advance... otherwise you will find yourselves with some last minute cancellations and the other groupmembers having to pay a larger share of the bill. This is a common problem with NRA courses I have given.

[vjf915 456]

Dont get my posts wrong, I think that you are doing a great thing with this. The zombie course is VERY innovative, its a great idea, and I would love to get the chance to try it out someday. So I hope you take this as constructive criticism and NOT an insult. I think that while you have the opportunity, it would be wise to try and change the layout before you have a steady flow of customers and dont have the time/money to do so. I dont see how its a wise business option to keep things running the way they are. A 300 yard rifle range is GREAT.....if you can shoot on it. But having to stop shooting to allow you and ONE person to spend the allotted time on the zombie course. Stopping everybody from shooting to allow one person to run the course just seems like it will be hard to maintain repeat customers. I know I wouldnt want to stop shooting because one person wants to run the zombie course. Changing the layout to allow both ranges AND the course to be run at the same time, and hiring somebody to monitor the ranges while you run the course will allow much more shooting time. Think of it this way, if you are charging for ammo, but not letting people shoot......thats ammo they wont be buying from you. You are limiting the ammo you sell. Say the zombie course takes 30 minutes, even one person could go through several boxes of ammo during that time, so hiring somebody to monitor the course will more than pay for itself.

 

Again, this is constructive criticism because I LIKE what you are doing.

[Wolfy 51]

This group is a stand up group I expect some cancellations but not many. We are a easy going bunch I figure if a group of us shows up the course only has to be reset after everyone has a turn.

[fliks 20]

that's a good point. Bill may be limited by the layout/space available on the property. I tried looking it up on google maps satellite, it didn't come up (it is too new, I guess) but maybe if we saw the layout, we could make suggestions... not to interfere with your privacy, Bill.

[tsafa 2]

that's a good point. Bill may be limited by the layout/space available on the property. I tried looking it up on google maps satellite, it didn't come up (it is too new, I guess) but maybe if we saw the layout, we could make suggestions... not to interfere with your privacy, Bill.

 

The property can be seen on google maps, but there are no clear boundary lines. All you see is trees. It will only be clear when you guys come over. I am defiantly limited by a number of factors and must work with what I have.

 

 

Again, this is constructive criticism because I LIKE what you are doing.

 

Thanks VJF915. I was not insulted in anyway and I appreciate all input I get.

[fliks 20]

Bill, when I put in "1574 Route 196, Tobyhanna, PA 18466", it doesn't give me the exact location. what are the cross streets?

[EchoMirage 137]

D Stopping everybody from shooting to allow one person to run the course just seems like it will be hard to maintain repeat customers. I know I wouldnt want to stop shooting because one person wants to run the zombie course.

 

 

im sure if there was a NJ ZED group day, we'd have the entire range/property to ourselves, and not have any regular customers there. it would be a range rental, rather then just showing one day at cherry ridge. so we'd all be doing the zombie course, or something.

 

any pics/layout of what this zombie course is like? is it just different targets propped along the range, or is it more of a 'kill house' type setup?

[tsafa 2]

Bill, when I put in "1574 Route 196, Tobyhanna, PA 18466", it doesn't give me the exact location. what are the cross streets?

 

It is up the road from the intersection of Rt 196 and Rt 423. It is a new address so I don't think google has updated it yet.

 

 

D Stopping everybody from shooting to allow one person to run the course just seems like it will be hard to maintain repeat customers. I know I wouldnt want to stop shooting because one person wants to run the zombie course.

 

 

im sure if there was a NJ ZED group day, we'd have the entire range/property to ourselves, and not have any regular customers there. it would be a range rental, rather then just showing one day at cherry ridge. so we'd all be doing the zombie course, or something.

 

any pics/layout of what this zombie course is like? is it just different targets propped along the range, or is it more of a 'kill house' type setup?

 

 

I just finished digging it out. It is nothing more then a big 150x20 curvy trench at this point that is 8 feet deep. What it offers is the ability to safely shoot to the sides as you move through it. This is not something you can do on a standard range. The targets are simple paper targets over propped up plywood. With time and money I will be able to develop it further. As soon as I am done digging out another 300 feet (+4K), I will buy some steel targets that fall back when you shoot them (+4K).

 

In its current condition people may not be very impressed if they show up expecting to shoot on the zombie course... but will be very impressed coming to just shoot on a standard range and find their is a Zombie Course available too. I guess its a matter of perception. I think it might be better if you guys just wait an let me finish so you are impressed with it, rather then come now and be disappointed. It will definitely be complete by spring 2011.

 

I am also wondering... the conditions at Mt. Pocono through the winter can be 10 degrees with two feet of snow. How many people would want to go through the Zombie course in those conditions?