the new Attorney General's interpretation of 2C:39-1w. "Assault Firearm" means "Avtomat Kalashnikov Type Semiautomatic Firearms".

[mikelets456 78]

I have checked on the NJSP site... Nothing. I have checked with an FFL and gun range. They know nothing as well.Online through various sites and sources... Nothing. Anyone have ANY proof of this aside from someone posting they got a phone call? Either this is a sneaky, stealthy thing going on (REAL bad) or someone is messing around.

[LorenzoS 100]

One basic technique of torture is to randomly inflict pain to the victim for no reason at all. This is to make sure the victim understands he is powerless. That's really what's going on here.

 

The goal is to make everyone afraid to buy a rifle, even if it's legal, for fear of random punishment.

[PK90 3,571]

I have checked on the NJSP site... Nothing. I have checked with an FFL and gun range. They know nothing as well.Online through various sites and sources... Nothing. Anyone have ANY proof of this aside from someone posting they got a phone call? Either this is a sneaky, stealthy thing going on (REAL bad) or someone is messing around.

Are you doubting tuktuk and I, as well as others who got a phone call from CM requesting them returned? Did you even read this entire thread?

 

There will not be anything posted for awhile, if at all. You want PROOF? Call the NJSP and ask them if an AK type firearm is legal in NJ even if it has been neutered per the 1996 AG Guideline.

[mikelets456 78]

Talked to a friend who is a State policeman... knows nothing of it.

[mikelets456 78]

Are you doubting tuktuk and I, as well as others who got a phone call from CM requesting them returned? Did you even read this entire thread?

 

There will not be anything posted for awhile, if at all. You want PROOF? Call the NJSP and ask them if an AK type firearm is legal in NJ even if it has been neutered per the 1996 AG Guideline.

 

From what I understand is AK 47's have ALWAYS been illegal in NJ. Copies "OK", no pistol grips. Correct me if I am wrong... Sorry if I offended you but all the people I contacted were like "What? Did not hear of such a thing".

[vjf915 456]

Talked to a friend who is a State policeman... knows nothing of it.

Dont talk to someone just because they work for the state police. Try talking to the firearms division.

[PK90 3,571]

From what I understand is AK 47's have ALWAYS been illegal in NJ. Copies "OK", no pistol grips. Correct me if I am wrong... Sorry if I offended you but all the people I contacted were like "What? Did not hear of such a thing".

Ask the same people if they heard that the M1 Carbine was legal for 8 days.

 

So far, we have one dealer that was told by the NJSP that the IO AK Type that they were selling was not legal in NJ despite the 1996 AG Directive. The new AG believes that they are not legal because "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are assault weapons no matter the modifications.

[mikelets456 78]

Ask the same people if they heard that the M1 Carbine was legal for 8 days.

 

So far, we have one dealer that was told by the NJSP that the IO AK Type that they were selling was not legal in NJ despite the 1996 AG Directive. The new AG believes that they are not legal because "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are assault weapons no matter the modifications.

 

Ok... thanks for the explanation. Once again I apologize to all if my comments were condescending.

[lunker 274]

Ask the same people if they heard that the M1 Carbine was legal for 8 days.

 

So far, we have one dealer that was told by the NJSP that the IO AK Type that they were selling was not legal in NJ despite the 1996 AG Directive. The new AG believes that they are not legal because "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are assault weapons no matter the modifications.

 

Paul, Shore Shot got the same call about the IO rifles.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I have a really good idea.. lets stop asking the police about "other" rifles and if they are legal or not.. assume that guns you legally purchased in NJ from legitimate operating firearms dealers are legal until otherwise told.. I have this funny feeling that ringing the firearms divisions phone off the hook asking about every variant there is, will only create more problems... learn the lesson we learned when people repeatedly called about the M1 carbine.. STOP BOTHERING THE NJSP...

 

just my 2 cents..

[KpdPipes 388]

How many times are these Attorney Generals going to reinterpret the same law? They keep changing what's considered legal and instantly turning law abiding people into criminals.

How has this gone on for almost twenty years without a court declaring this law unreasonably vague?

You ARE kidding right?? You are talking about the same state, where the State Supreme Court Violated the State Cosntitution pertaining to Elections, to keep a Senate Seat Democrat. There is no WAY IN HELL the SCONJ would ever rule in FAVOR of any gun owner.

[JimmyAGR 54]

This state is getting more and more scary. The AG "believes" that they are not legal even if modified to the letter of the law. It amazes me that politicians, and appointees put there own spin on things to suit them. So are all AR style rifles next because she also believes that they are assualt weapons? My butter knives can be assualt weapons also if someone chose to use them in a bad manner. We need some legal help. We had over 800 people on this forum yesterday, maybe we can start a fund to challenge these asinine laws and rulings. I would gladly give up my ammo money for awhile to fight this.

[PK90 3,571]

I have a really good idea.. lets stop asking the police about "other" rifles and if they are legal or not.. assume that guns you legally purchased in NJ from legitimate operating firearms dealers are legal until otherwise told.. I have this funny feeling that ringing the firearms divisions phone off the hook asking about every variant there is, will only create more problems... learn the lesson we learned when people repeatedly called about the M1 carbine.. STOP BOTHERING THE NJSP...

 

just my 2 cents..

THIS.

 

Who is to blame?

 

New Jersey's vague laws

Anti-Gun Politicians and Cronies

Distributors who lack balls, i.e. Century Arms.

Ourselves for referring to WASRs, SARs and others as AK-47s.

[KpdPipes 388]

You are correct about Christie's national Republican ambitions, but for New Jersey he knows he has gun owners between a rock and a hard place. Vote for Christie and gun laws presumably won't get worse under his watch. Sit out the election or vote for someone else and a Democrat wins, who will invariably be even more hostile towards gun owners. The only saving grace for gun owners in this state is if he does plan to run for higher office. Politicians remember that Republicans from the rest of the country took a big dump on Giuliani's head for his anti-gun positions. That was probably the biggest thing to sink his candidacy.

And how is that working out for us????? He's a Frigging Anti..people just dont WANT to believe it. But him and Dow have broken it off in our collective asses THREE TIMES IN 09 MONTHS. I have NEVER been so utterly disgusted with a candidate I Supported as i have been with Christie.

[Guest megaman]

Why exactly is that? The national media is sympathetic to all anti-gun laws. It would be portrayed as the valiant policemen disarming (and no doubt subduing) a potentially violent gun wielding extremist. The NJSP might get medals.

 

 

I disagree. There are media outlets that are very 'friendly' to guns. Think if you called the NRA communications dept and fox news, or the WSJ, with readerships smart enough to see what is going on, and told them what you wished to do you would no doubt get support.

I dont see how owning something that is banned by name by law abiding citizens would be extreme in any sense. Even liberals know when people are getting screwed. You cant just have the police coming to your house to pick up a gun, this happened in hurricane Katrina, people screamed about this and are still trying to get their guns back.

I totally disagree with your assessment of how this could happen.

[kenw 293]

And how is that working out for us????? He's a Frigging Anti..people just dont WANT to believe it. But him and Dow have broken it off in our collective asses THREE TIMES IN 09 MONTHS. I have NEVER been so utterly disgusted with a candidate I Supported as i have been with Christie.

The simple answer is that we don't count. We're not a large enough voting block to even move the needle, and we're the perfect target when someone needs to get thrown in front of the train under the bus whenever attention needs to be diverted from something else, or when the soccer moms get together and complain the nothing is being done to bring crime and violence under control.

 

With the stroke of a pen, in just a few minutes, a new law further restricting evil weapons of chaos and destruction can be put in place, and then they can ballyhoo to all who care that their ongoing war against violence and crime has taken another giant leap forward. The details are irrelevant, nobody cares. Only that some other weapon that can hurt the children or penetrate the vests of our heroic law enforcement officers has been removed from the streets.

 

We're the only ones suffering the loss of our rights, and, quite frankly, nobody outside the very small part of a very small group actually gives a shlt about it.

[Guest megaman]

Barricaded New Jersey Man Shot To Death In Home

 

A New Jersey man was shot and killed this morning after barricading himself in his (your town here) home and refusing to turn over his arsenal of illegal assault weapons and cache of thousands of rounds of military style cop killer bullets.

 

After learning that he was in possession of illegal assault weapons under the new NJ law prohibiting such infernal machines, (your name here) locked himself in his home and challenged the NJ State Police in their sworn duty to lawfully enter his home to confiscate and destroy a number of military style assault weapons. Upon enetring the home after the brief shootout which left (your name here) dead at the scene, State Police discovered a large, heavily secured vault containing upwards of 8 military style rifles, 3 large capacity handguns usually reserved for law enforcement use, and thousands of rounds of high power ammunition.

 

And so on and so forth....

 

Not the type of media coverage I'd like to have.

 

UUUHHH...NOOO. how about you arrainging a time for a NJSP officer to come and meet you on your front lawn with TV crews and gun cased and unloaded on the ground as per NJ law.

You guys are drama queens. Just go put your tail in between your legs now...

[Guest megaman]

I have a really good idea.. lets stop asking the police about "other" rifles and if they are legal or not.. assume that guns you legally purchased in NJ from legitimate operating firearms dealers are legal until otherwise told.. I have this funny feeling that ringing the firearms divisions phone off the hook asking about every variant there is, will only create more problems... learn the lesson we learned when people repeatedly called about the M1 carbine.. STOP BOTHERING THE NJSP...

 

just my 2 cents..

 

 

 

This is a very good point.

[kenw 293]

Okay, why wait, then?

 

Call FOX and tell them what's going on and see if they care.

 

See if they take away air time from the TSA debacle, or the international NWO conspiracy, or the collapse of the dollar and the American way of life to give you the time of day.

[lunker 274]

UUUHHH...NOOO. how about you arrainging a time for a NJSP officer to come and meet you on your front lawn with TV crews and gun cased and unloaded on the ground as per NJ law.

You guys are drama queens. Just go put your tail in between your legs now...

In my opinion, the only thing that allowed us to own AR and AK style rifles was the Attorney General's clarification letter from a few years ago which carved out exemptions based on the evil features compliance game. It sure looks like the new Attorney General may be in the process of re-clarifying the clarification, and not in our favor.

Who are you going to complian to? The law hasn't changed, it's interpretation has. No NJ court will back our position. Fox viewers nationwide may realize a travesty when they see it, but here in NJ it will be business as usual. Our only friends in this state are Federal Courts.

[Radek 73]

This is 100% correct. If you own the home/land and you moved it there, it is no longer subject to NJ restrictions. The NJSP cant get a search warrant for an item that is being kept in PA and is not PA illegal.

So there is no way they can compel you to go over the river and come back with your gun to be handed over...

NJ also wants to keep the unspent money from your gift cards, a federal judge stepped in to stop it.

I can see the same thing happening with this AWB, I just dont know what the hell these lawyers are waiting for...

Plenty of people with plenty of money here...Crispy wont waste any political capital on anything gun related until its the makeup of the legislature changes. Just make sure you vote in 2011...

 

That's the fundamental problem w/ politicians, it's all about "political capital" and CYA, whatever happened to the right of the people who elected him? No balls.

[Radek 73]

If this is really true, we need to band together and start a lawsuit that will go to the supreme court. We will need to start a collective fund to finance a good lawyer. I am friends with some highly influential gun rights activists and be sure I already sent them an email concerning this. If we need to find a plaintiff for the case, I for one would volunteer, and I am sure there would be many more volunteers. This is a call to mobilize and fight for our rights. This is not little stuff, they are starting confiscation which is unconstitutional. Also if we find documentation that states this we need someone to start contacting the news media such as FOX and others that would actually air the story. Lets start bringing some national attention once we have black and white proof.

 

+1, I will contribute. FWIW: I am stuck in this crappy state for some time, till then I want my guns! :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[Radek 73]

I was not a big Christie fan from the start, I knew about his AWB flyer when he was running for assemblyman or some other position. I had a gut feeling he would be another Whitmanesqe RINO. I wanted someone to go to Trenton like a drunken Brazilian sugar cane farmer heading off to the fields with a sharp machete after getting pissed-off in a fight with his wife... What we seem to have is a supersized male version of Christie Whitman content with paying lip service to conservatives in an attempt to get their votes. If he and his libtard AG keep this crap up and I wouldn't vote for him again if he was running against Lautenberg. I'd rather have a libtard with a D after his name that I didn't vote for start sticking it to me than one with an R after his name resume sticking it to me.

 

keep up the humor, love it!

[intercooler 41]

FWIW - I contacted the NRA-ILA and they have already responded that they are aware of the situation and are working to resolve it....whatever that means.

yea...and hell is getting cooler as we speak. NRA doesn't give a rat's AZZ about NJ, cept them dues you guys pay.

[BRN169 6]

Ask the same people if they heard that the M1 Carbine was legal for 8 days.

 

So far, we have one dealer that was told by the NJSP that the IO AK Type that they were selling was not legal in NJ despite the 1996 AG Directive. The new AG believes that they are not legal because "Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms" are assault weapons no matter the modifications.

 

So the M1A is not an "M14 S Type"? The "type" arguement was DOA...

 

Colt Match Target/Springfield M1A

AG Directive March 31, 1997

 

Both the Division of Criminal Justice and the State Police Firearms Unit have received a number of inquiries whether the Colt Match Target Rifle and the Springfield M1A are considered assault firearms under New Jersey law.

 

Based on our review of the law and the Attorney General guidelines, we conclude that neither of the two firearms are prohibited under State law.

 

The Colt Match Target Rifle, based on the manufacturer’s specifications, is a new line of rifles and is not part of the AR-15 series, and thus, is not prohibited under N.J.S.A.2 C: 39-1w(1).

 

Although this new rifle, may resemble the Colt AR-15, there have been substantial changes to the firearm, including the receiver which is not identical to an AR-15 receiver.

 

In addition, because of changes in the configuration of the firearm, the Colt Match Target Rifle is not substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and prohibited under this classification.

 

See N.J.S.A.2C:39-1w(2) and Attorney General’s Guidelines Regarding the “Substantially Identical” Provision in the State’s Assault Firearms Laws dated August 19, 1996.

 

The Springfield M1A is not one of the enumerated firearms which are specifically prohibited under the State’s assault firearms laws. It has been prohibited in this State as being substantially identical to a named firearm.

 

However, according to the manufacturer’s specifications, the M1A has been modified. The modified M1A, which became available in 1994, would not be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm in accordance with the statutory provision and the Attorney General’s guidelines cited above.

 

However, earlier versions of the M1A which contains at least two of the criteria identified in Paragraph B of the Attorney General’s Guidelines, supra, would still be considered to be substantially identical to a prohibited firearm and continue to be banned under our State law.

 

As a result, it will be necessary to clearly distinguish the physical characteristics or lack of physical characteristics when making a determination regarding the M1A rifle.

 

Neither this clarification regarding the classification of the Colt Match Target Rifle and the M1A Rifle, nor the guidelines issued August 19, 1996, regarding the “substantially identical” provision of the assault weapons law applies to firearms that are specifically listed in N.J.S.A.2C:39-1w(2) as prohibited firearms or to firearms which are banned at “types” of named prohibited firearms.

 

M14 S Type:

 

M1A (Post-Ban)

 

FN FALs are banned as types yet DSA SA-58s are legal

Armalite AR-180 is banned as a type yet the Armalite AR-180B is legal

The G3SA is banned as a type yet it is a semi-auto G3 clone (an HK-91) and HK-91 clones are legal

SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP are banned as types yet Sig 556 is legal

 

Yet they cry about the Uzi and the M1 Carbine (9mm or .30cal carbine "type" gun evil yet .223 and .308 "type" guns good) WTF?

 

These idiots would be unemployable if they didn't work for the govenment...

[Radek 73]

In my opinion, the only thing that allowed us to own AR and AK style rifles was the Attorney General's clarification letter from a few years ago which carved out exemptions based on the evil features compliance game. It sure looks like the new Attorney General may be in the process of re-clarifying the clarification, and not in our favor.

Who are you going to complian to? The law hasn't changed, it's interpretation has. No NJ court will back our position. Fox viewers nationwide may realize a travesty when they see it, but here in NJ it will be business as usual. Our only friends in this state are Federal Courts.

 

I don't think we know that. AFAIK, there has been no major court case on "re-clarifying the clarification" and re-interpretation of firearms laws. A class action is the only way to see what happens in NJ courts. A place to start would be to identify 2A supporting gun-owning judges and file motion there, make a big stink in the news media ... go from there.

[Radek 73]

These idiots would be unemployable if they didn't work for the government...

 

+1

 

Talking about govt, recently, I came across an IT project at the US census bureau that they are working on(?) for over 4 years. In the commercial world such a project would take 6 months to 1 year, tops! I didn't take the project of course, I want to avoid becoming senile at an early age! Shish!

 

Back to topic.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

......nobody outside the very small part of a very small group actually gives a shlt about it.

 

 

Bingo!

 

There's people on this very forum that don't give a ****.

 

If this turns out the be a real deal, and confiscation does happen, I personally wouldn't be surprised by how many gun owners will simply shrug, and say they had a good run of it, time to mow the lawn, or rake leaves, or shovel snow.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Bingo!

 

There's people on this very forum that don't give a ****.

 

If this turns out the be a real deal, and confiscation does happen, I personally wouldn't be surprised by how many gun owners will simply shrug, and say they had a good run of it, time to mow the lawn, or rake leaves, or shovel snow.

 

 

that would be me moving.. I will not surrender a firearm I legally purchased.. isn't gonna happen.. I will screw around with all these lame goofy "evil feature laws" and abide by them.. but when it comes to the government coming in and stealing my guns.. that is where I literally draw the line.. a lot of people may think of this as just big talk.. but I swear I will up and leave and the slightest sign of that ridiculous ****.. I will transfer my guns (through FFL) to family in PA and then do everything in my power to move there ASAP.. NJ is NOT taking my guns.. no friggin way..

[lunker 274]

I don't think we know that. AFAIK, there has been no major court case on "re-clarifying the clarification" and re-interpretation of firearms laws. A class action is the only way to see what happens in NJ courts. A place to start would be to identify 2A supporting gun-owning judges and file motion there, make a big stink in the news media ... go from there.

 

 

We already know the New Jersey Supreme Court's position on guns:

 

“When dealing with guns, the citizen acts at his peril" (1996 case, State v. Pelleteri)

 

That sums up how far we will get in NJ courts.