C&R liscense and NJ. specifically m1 carbine

[intercooler 41]

does having a C&R liscense in nj make it legal to get an m1 carbine? it is listed on the atf site as a RELIC, but nj says they are illegal. what does the C&R liscense do for you that is different than not having one other than saving the transfer fees on 50+ year old guns?

[Maksim 1,504]

NJ does not legally recognize the C&R License and considers you an FFL. a few years ago, the NJSP sent out a notice to C&R holders that they are considered dealers by NJ, and must comply with all FFL requirements.

[intercooler 41]

that kinda stinks...pretty much most all the guns i am interested in fall in C&R categories...

i hate NJ

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

NJ does not legally recognize the C&R License and considers you an FFL. a few years ago, the NJSP sent out a notice to C&R holders that they are considered dealers by NJ, and must comply with all FFL requirements.

 

 

C&R license holders already have to comply with FFL requirements like keeping a bound book and are limited as to what firearms qualify. The "wrench in the monkey works" in NJ is that they are considered dealers and as such must comply with NJ firearms dealers laws - which means a separate NJ firearms dealers license and the attendant hoops that are required.

 

If I recall, the C&R license says that it is specifically NOT intended for dealers, only collectors - but hey, this is NJ.

 

No C&R, no M1 carbine - have to move to America if you want those.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Maksim 1,504]

Thanks Bob for clarifying. =)

[halbautomatisch 60]

C&R license holders already have to comply with FFL requirements like keeping a bound book and are limited as to what firearms qualify. The "wrench in the monkey works" in NJ is that they are considered dealers and as such must comply with NJ firearms dealers laws - which means a separate NJ firearms dealers license and the attendant hoops that are required.

 

If I recall, the C&R license says that it is specifically NOT intended for dealers, only collectors - but hey, this is NJ.

 

No C&R, no M1 carbine - have to move to America if you want those.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

All very true.

 

Also keep in mind, even if you could get a C & R, you would then be subject to inspection by the ATF and the SP would most certainly be tagging along to see what you have in your house

[Dan 177]

As what other posters said, its a bad idea to get a C&R in NJ. Period.

[joejaxx 38]

NJ does not legally recognize the C&R License and considers you an FFL. a few years ago, the NJSP sent out a notice to C&R holders that they are considered dealers by NJ, and must comply with all FFL requirements.

 

C&R license holders already have to comply with FFL requirements like keeping a bound book and are limited as to what firearms qualify. The "wrench in the monkey works" in NJ is that they are considered dealers and as such must comply with NJ firearms dealers laws - which means a separate NJ firearms dealers license and the attendant hoops that are required.

 

If I recall, the C&R license says that it is specifically NOT intended for dealers, only collectors - but hey, this is NJ.

 

No C&R, no M1 carbine - have to move to America if you want those.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I will bite the bait. Sorry, but I have to ask it. Does anyone have a copy of this magical letter/notice saying that New Jersey considers us dealers? The reason I ask is because:

 

 

 

My FFL03 C&R license says (with literal bold and underline):

THIS LICENSE DOES NOT AUTHORIZE THE HOLDER TO ENGAGE IN THE BUSINESS OF DEALING IN ANY FIREARMS

 

From NJ AA Code §13:54-1.2 Definitions

“Retail dealer” means any person, including a gunsmith, except a manufacturer or a wholesale dealer, who sells, transfers, or assigns for a fee or profit any firearm or parts of firearms or ammunition which he has purchased or obtained with the intention, or for the purpose of reselling or reassigning to persons who are reasonably understood to be the ultimate consumers, and includes any person who is engaged in the business of repairing firearms or who sells any firearm to satisfy a debt secured by the pledge of a firearm.

 

From NJ AA Code §13:54-3.2 Retail license required

No retail dealer of firearms nor any employee of a retail dealer shall sell or expose for sale or possess with intent to sell, any firearm, parts of firearms, ammunition, or engage in gunsmithing, unless such person has first obtained a retail dealers license issued pursuant to this chapter.

 

Sounds like the New Jersey Administrative Code disagrees. Just saying.

[PK90 3,573]

Booyah!!!

 

I think it was a "Nappenism".

 

ETA: I now know of four NJ C&R holders.

 

I wasn't quick enough on the download.

[joejaxx 38]

Booyah!!!

 

 

I think it was a "Nappenism".

 

ETA: I now know of four NJ C&R holders.

 

Wooooo Number 4!

[Maksim 1,504]

I have not seen the letter myself, however have heard the State Police commissioner say that out of his mouth at the OGAM hearing.

[joejaxx 38]

does having a C&R liscense in nj make it legal to get an m1 carbine? it is listed on the atf site as a RELIC, but nj says they are illegal. what does the C&R liscense do for you that is different than not having one other than saving the transfer fees on 50+ year old guns?

 

Also to answer the original question: No,having a FFL03 does not allow you to have a named weapon called the "M1 Carbine". You still have to adhere to NJ Gun Laws even if you are a FFL03 license holder and there is a possession ban on this type of rifle. Also you will not save on the transfer fee as curio and relic firearms cannot be shipped to your premise. They have to be shipped to a NJ Reteail Firearm Dealer because of NJ gun laws ( and unless you are friends with one of them I doubt they will wave the transfer fee ).

[PK90 3,573]

... Also you will not save on the transfer fee as curio and relic firearms cannot be shipped to your premise. They have to be shipped to a NJ Reteail Firearm Dealer because of NJ gun laws ( and unless you are friends with one of them I doubt they will wave the transfer fee ).

 

OR, he could pick one up out of state and save on the NICS & Fees.

[Dan 177]

OR, he could pick one up out of state and save on the NICS & Fees.

 

You can do that without a C&R FFL with a private in or out of state purchase of long guns, provided the seller and buyer both fill out a NJ Certificate of Eligibility, and the NJ buyer has a NJ FID. NICS checks (and fees) are only done when purchasing from a licensed dealer.

 

I've looked into this years ago, from what I've researched, I've found zero benefit of having a C&R living in NJ. The whole reason people usually want it is to have C&R listed firearms mailed directly to their house, bypassing needing to go through a dealer. NJ laws basically nullify this benefit.

 

So in NJ, a C&R is only good if you want the BATF to have the ability to perform yearly inspections on your collections, and try to ding you for any slight technicalities or errors in your record keeping. There is also the possibility the information is shared with NJSP, although this appears to be hearsay at this point.

 

Is all that worth it to maybe, just maybe avoid having to pay NICS fees once in awhile if you purchase a C&R firearm from a licensed FFL out of state dealer (in person, so there's gas/toll money involved). I would suspect many dealers would may still demand a NICS check just to cover their arse.

[PK90 3,573]

You can do that without a C&R FFL with a private in or out of state purchase of long guns, provided the seller and buyer both fill out a NJ Certificate of Eligibility, and the NJ buyer has a NJ FID. NICS checks (and fees) are only done when purchasing from a licensed dealer. There are no private purchases from a resident of another state.

 

I've looked into this years ago, from what I've researched, I've found zero benefit of having a C&R living in NJ. The whole reason people usually want it is to have C&R listed firearms mailed directly to their house, bypassing needing to go through a dealer. NJ laws basically nullify this benefit. Not true for reasons stated.

 

So in NJ, a C&R is only good if you want the BATF to have the ability to perform yearly inspections on your collections, and try to ding you for any slight technicalities or errors in your record keeping. There is also the possibility the information is shared with NJSP, although this appears to be hearsay at this point.

 

Is all that worth it to maybe, just maybe avoid having to pay NICS fees once in awhile if you purchase a C&R firearm from a licensed FFL out of state dealer (in person, so there's gas/toll money involved). I would suspect many dealers would may still demand a NICS check just to cover their arse. Probably not.

[JonF 79]

I believe 03 FFL holders also qualify for dealer discounts at places like Brownells, Midway, etc and also permits you to purchase from places like SOG and other wholesalers (Although you still need to ship to 01 FFL). These are additional perks and privileges that could justify the $30/3 year fee if you buy a lot of ammo/accessories at such places.

[Dan 177]

I stand corrected, read legalese further and it is true that NJ residents can buy out of state, but only from federally licensed dealers. No private sales.

 

Although as for FFL03, I understand that you cannot have C&R firearms shipped directly to you within NJ. Is that not correct?

[PK90 3,573]

I stand corrected, read legalese further and it is true that NJ residents can buy out of state, but only from federally licensed dealers. No private sales.

 

Although as for FFL03, I understand that you cannot have C&R firearms shipped directly to you within NJ. Is that not correct?

 

Correct

[halbautomatisch 60]

Does anyone else here, aside from Joejaxx, have any experience with a C&R in NJ, as far as ATF inspections and of any possible NJSP involvement in these inspections?

[Guest schutzen-jager]

had one for 32 years - believe me it is not worth the hassle + lawyers fees if njsp get involved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[halbautomatisch 60]

had one for 32 years - believe me it is not worth the hassle + lawyers fees if njsp get involved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you get harassed much? Or just the paperwork issues?

[KpdPipes 388]

Booyah!!!

 

I think it was a "Nappenism".

 

ETA: I now know of four NJ C&R holders.

 

I wasn't quick enough on the download.

 

 

there you go again...Questioning "Saint Evan".... For shame..

 

C&R in NJ gives you ONE and ONLY ONE Advantage, you get the C&R discount prices. because of Nj laws, even with a C&R you CANNOT have firearms shipped directly to yourself without going through an 01 FFL. And nefore any one asks, I have my packet all filled out to be sent in.

[Guest schutzen-jager]

Did you get harassed much? Or just the paperwork issues?

harassed , arrested - no paper work issues - no batf problems , just njsp - 1 year + several thousand dollars to prove that i was not a criminal - almost two years + another thousand dollars to get my guns returned + arrest record cleared -

[joejaxx 38]

harassed , arrested - no paper work issues - no batf problems , just njsp - 1 year + several thousand dollars to prove that i was not a criminal - almost two years + another thousand dollars to get my guns returned + arrest record cleared -

 

What prompted you to get arrested? What were you charged with?

[joejaxx 38]

there you go again...Questioning "Saint Evan".... For shame..

 

C&R in NJ gives you ONE and ONLY ONE Advantage, you get the C&R discount prices. because of Nj laws, even with a C&R you CANNOT have firearms shipped directly to yourself without going through an 01 FFL. And nefore any one asks, I have my packet all filled out to be sent in.

 

There is actually more than the one advantage but yeah you cannot send firearms to your house.

[Guest schutzen-jager]

What prompted you to get arrested? What were you charged with?

batf inspection - inspector requested copy of bound book + it was turned over to njsp - all purchases legal at point of sale - charges unlicensed dealer ( only sold 3 in 32 years ) - illegally purchasing handgun , etc. -

[Dan 177]

batf inspection - inspector requested copy of bound book + it was turned over to njsp - all purchases legal at point of sale - charges unlicensed dealer ( only sold 3 in 32 years ) - illegally purchasing handgun , etc. -

 

So there's the example of the BATF working with the NJSP. Its like a free search warrant for the NJSP, which opens up a whole can of worms.. especially when we live in a state in which firearm owners are guilty before being proven innocent.

 

IMHO, even when you are 100% legal with your firearms dealings, our best defense in NJ is to lay low and not draw attention to ourselves. Having your head stick up out of the crowd by having a C&R does not seem worth it for some discounts and other potential small benefits. Out of sight , out of mind.

[joejaxx 38]

batf inspection - inspector requested copy of bound book + it was turned over to njsp - all purchases legal at point of sale - charges unlicensed dealer ( only sold 3 in 32 years ) - illegally purchasing handgun , etc. -

 

So let me get this straight: You got charged for illegally purchasing/selling firearms in New Jersey? Did you have permits to purchase for all of your handgun purchases in New Jersey? Did you fill out a Certificate of Eligibility for all your long gun purchases in New Jersey? Did you require permits to purchase for handguns and/or a Certificate of Eligibility for long guns from the people you sold the firearms to? Did you not ship firearms to your house? Do you have a case number I can reference because I would be interested in seeing what the circumstances of the case were.

[Guest schutzen-jager]

So let me get this straight: You got charged for illegally purchasing/selling firearms in New Jersey? Did you have permits to purchase for all of your handgun purchases in New Jersey? Did you fill out a Certificate of Eligibility for all your long gun purchases in New Jersey? Did you require permits to purchase for handguns and/or a Certificate of Eligibility for long guns from the people you sold the firearms to? Did you not ship firearms to your house? Do you have a case number I can reference because I would be interested in seeing what the circumstances of the case were.

all transactions in nj complied with nj state law - case records expunged + permanently sealed - this happened during clinton administration when he ordered batf to reduce the number of ffl's by 75% - at the time njsp actually had troopers answering batf phones in some regional offices - sorry i posted anything , bringing back some bad memories - like pristine items being tossed in garbage cans for storage + being mutilated before being returned -

[Dan 177]

like pristine items being tossed in garbage cans for storage + being mutilated before being returned -

 

No realistic legal recourse for the damage?