Siq Mosquito threaded barrel - ILLEGAL IN NJ?

[mojo nixon 0]

Hello NJGF,

A new fan of this website and organization. Just getting back into shooting after a long hiatus - bought me a nice little Sig Mosquito for cheap off of GunBroker.com to ease back into the hobby.... So, I'm all psyched to pick this up from my ffl, who shall remain nameless, when he calls me and tells me that my Sig Mosquito (one step up from a BB gun) is ILLEGAL IN NEW JERSEY, and he can't transfer it to me. Why, you may ask? Because it has a threaded barrel. I've read the gun laws for this state, and I feel he is sorely mistaken, but I sure would like some affirmation from you guys that this is legal. So, any one out there know of any threaded-barrel Mosquito owners in NJ that can dispute my ffl's position? Anyone else ever get hassled or denied possession of a handgun simply because of a threaded barrel? Any feedback would really be appreciated! Thanks!

MOJO

P.S.: pic of my "assault weapon" attached...

[vladtepes 1,060]

Hello NJGF,

A new fan of this website and organization. Just getting back into shooting after a long hiatus - bought me a nice little Sig Mosquito for cheap off of GunBroker.com to ease back into the hobby.... So, I'm all psyched to pick this up from my ffl, who shall remain nameless, when he calls me and tells me that my Sig Mosquito (one step up from a BB gun) is ILLEGAL IN NEW JERSEY, and he can't transfer it to me. Why, you may ask? Because it has a threaded barrel. I've read the gun laws for this state, and I feel he is sorely mistaken, but I sure would like some affirmation from you guys that this is legal. So, any one out there know of any threaded-barrel Mosquito owners in NJ that can dispute my ffl's position? Anyone else ever get hassled or denied possession of a handgun simply because of a threaded barrel? Any feedback would really be appreciated! Thanks!

MOJO

P.S.: pic of my "assault weapon" attached...

 

 

he is wrong..

 

tell him this..

 

NJ test for gun legality:

 

1) Is the gun specifically banned by name

YES: Illegal

NO: Proceed to question number two

 

2) Is the gun substantially identical as defined by NJ law..

 

ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at

least two of the following:

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (Does not have this)

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,

forward handgrip, or silencer; (Evil feature one)

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned; (This would be strike two if you ever put the shroud on it)

(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or (Does not have this)

(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; (Does not have this)

 

YES: ILLEGAL

NO: LEGAL

 

 

complete list of banned guns..

 

"Assault firearms" means:

1. Any of the following firearms:

Algimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3

Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type

Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5 F and Mini-14/5 RF

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arm Nighthawk;

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

According to NJAC 13:54-1.2,2 (ii), it is only illegal using the following criteria:

 

ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at

least two of the following:

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,

forward handgrip, or silencer;

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned;

(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or

(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm;

 

It is a semi-automatic pistol able to accept a detachable magazine, so you can have only one of the enumerated evil features. A second would tip it into the realm of a prohibited weapon.

 

Let's see:

#1) Nope, attaches within the grip

#2) Yep. That's your one

#3) Nope, no barrel shroud (or as we affectionately call it, "That thing that goes up.")

#4) Nope, not >50 oz.

#5) Nope, I know of no fully automatic Mosquito

 

Looks like you are good to go. Convincing your FFL that it's legal may be a whole other story.

 

Good luck,

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

[djg0770 481]

Find a different FFL.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Vlad raised a good point with enumerated evil feature #3. There is an optics mount from Sig that attaches to the rail on the frame under the barrel. It surrounds the slide and barrel and allows you to mount a red-dot or whatever, over the barrel. That could be....errr (come on, this is NJ, who am I kidding?) would be interpreted as a barrel shroud. If it came with it, leave it at the FFL. If it didn't don't buy one. Simple.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[joejaxx 38]

Vlad raised a good point with enumerated evil feature #3. There is an optics mount from Sig that attaches to the rail on the frame under the barrel. It surrounds the slide and barrel and allows you to mount a red-dot or whatever, over the barrel. That could be....errr (come on, this is NJ, who am I kidding?) would be interpreted as a barrel shroud. If it came with it, leave it at the FFL. If it didn't don't buy one. Simple.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

It does not matter since the Sig Mosquito is not a clone of anything on the list anyway.

 

Please look at the following example:

 

1. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol (which are both named assault weapons) that were actually named TEC-9 or MAC 10/11 on the receiver then it would be illegal to possess and purchase (without a proper AW license).

 

2. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol *CLONE* then he would have to be concerned about pistol features since the receiver is a *CLONE* of something on the list.

 

3. If he was asking about the legality of a Desert Eagle in .50AE that had a threaded barrel (a pistol that has two listed features) it does not matter since the Desert Eagle is not: 1. named on the list and furthermore 2. not a *CLONE* of anything named on the list.

[mojo nixon 0]

Thanks Gents, for all the input. Your opinions square with everything that I could find concerning NJ Law and it's interpretation. Also called three other local ffls, and they have no heartburn selling the Mosquito threaded barrel all day long. Like you said, it may be time for a new ffl.

MOJO

[vladtepes 1,060]

It does not matter since the Sig Mosquito is not a clone of anything on the list anyway.

 

Please look at the following example:

 

1. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol (which are both named assault weapons) that were actually named TEC-9 or MAC 10/11 on the receiver then it would be illegal to possess and purchase (without a proper AW license).

 

2. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol *CLONE* then he would have to be concerned about pistol features since the receiver is a *CLONE* of something on the list.

 

3. If he was asking about the legality of a Desert Eagle in .50AE that had a threaded barrel (a pistol that has two listed features) it does not matter since the Desert Eagle is not: 1. named on the list and furthermore 2. not a *CLONE* of anything named on the list.

 

 

While I will completely and totally agree that this is in fact true.. good luck with getting an ACR with a folder transferred to you... I have doubts the FFLs that AGREE with you would do it.. so unfortunately till someone actually gets that in clear understanding.. I was just explaining the basic acceptance of the general rule.. yeah I agree with you.. but seriously..

[halbautomatisch 60]

It does not matter since the Sig Mosquito is not a clone of anything on the list anyway.

 

Please look at the following example:

 

1. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol (which are both named assault weapons) that were actually named TEC-9 or MAC 10/11 on the receiver then it would be illegal to possess and purchase (without a proper AW license).

 

2. If he was looking at a TEC-9 or a MAC 10/11 pistol *CLONE* then he would have to be concerned about pistol features since the receiver is a *CLONE* of something on the list.

 

3. If he was asking about the legality of a Desert Eagle in .50AE that had a threaded barrel (a pistol that has two listed features) it does not matter since the Desert Eagle is not: 1. named on the list and furthermore 2. not a *CLONE* of anything named on the list.

While I believe you are correctly interpreting the law, understand that the NJSP is NOT interpreting the law that way. I know a store that was selling Sig 522 pistols, which are not a clone of anything on that list, and were told by the NJSP that they were illegal because they violate the evil feature game. They were required to take them all back.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

try an FFL here, TJ and PK90 are the best

[totalabuse 27]

I have that record (Virus 100) somewhere.

[KpdPipes 388]

Vlad raised a good point with enumerated evil feature #3. There is an optics mount from Sig that attaches to the rail on the frame under the barrel. It surrounds the slide and barrel and allows you to mount a red-dot or whatever, over the barrel. That could be....errr (come on, this is NJ, who am I kidding?) would be interpreted as a barrel shroud. If it came with it, leave it at the FFL. If it didn't don't buy one. Simple.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

 

Loosen your Tinfoil hat..there is NO WAY that would be determined as a Barrel Shroud...some of you guys really make me laugh.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Loosen your Tinfoil hat..there is NO WAY that would be determined as a Barrel Shroud...some of you guys really make me laugh.

 

 

And this is based on????????????

 

It meets the definition of a barrel shroud, and regardless of its intended purpose (optics mount) an overzealous prosecutor (who probably wouldn't know a barrel shroud if they fell over it, ala McCarthy) could make that case in court.

[KpdPipes 388]

And this is based on????????????

 

It meets the definition of a barrel shroud, and regardless of its intended purpose (optics mount) an overzealous prosecutor (who probably wouldn't know a barrel shroud if they fell over it, ala McCarthy) could make that case in court.

It's based on common sense and the fact that I at least am not ridiculously paranoid when it comes to MY firearms, Even though a Gun Charge would cost me my career and Pension. That Same Prosecutor who is so uninformed wouldnt even KNOW the definition of a "Barrel Shroud"...nevermind attempt to apply it to something that is OBVIOUSLY not one. Like I said you guys make me laugh.

[Krdshrk 3,878]

It's based on common sense

 

[tommy3rd 132]

It's based on common sense and the fact that I at least am not ridiculously paranoid when it comes to MY firearms, Even though a Gun Charge would cost me my career and pension.

I think the biggest difference is you can pull out a badge and for the most part you would be ok with your brothers in blue. We don't have that luxury so we tend to be very very careful with interpretations or else we'd be sitting in jail.

[joejaxx 38]

While I believe you are correctly interpreting the law, understand that the NJSP is NOT interpreting the law that way. I know a store that was selling Sig 522 pistols, which are not a clone of anything on that list, and were told by the NJSP that they were illegal because they violate the evil feature game. They were required to take them all back.

 

Besides the fact that the people in the NJSP Firearm Investigation Unit are frequently wrong and do not even know about directives that have come out of their own unit (of which I have had to notify them about and correct them on law recently):

 

There are two directives (from the Attorney General AND New Jersey State Police themselves) that have come out that talk about how the feature ban is in direct relation with firearms that have receivers that are clones of things on the list. The Attorney General would not have been so careful to spell it out if they just wanted any of these features banned. Instead of talking about firearm clones, receivers and giving examples they could have just stated that all firearms that have these features are banned end of story but they did not. Even in another directive example, New Jersey State Police talks about receivers in relation to the feature ban. If this is truly the case with the New Jersey State Police then someone needs to call them up, tell them they are wrong and show them why they are.

[vjf915 456]

So Joe, just to clear this up, the features list ONLY pertains to firearms that have receivers that are clones of receivers of guns on the banned list? This state is just.....well..... :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

That Same Prosecutor who is so uninformed wouldnt even KNOW the definition of a "Barrel Shroud"...nevermind attempt to apply it to something that is OBVIOUSLY not one.

 

 

I'm still at a loss as to how this is SO OBVIOUSLY not a barrel shroud. Let's see, here's the definition...

 

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned

 

Here is the optics mount in question...

 

 

Completely encircles the barrel....check

Permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned....check

 

voila....BARREL SHROUD

 

I have seen less well thought out designs on Bianchi Cup guns for shooting around barricades. The weak hand braces the gun against the barricade via the shroud. The gun remains functional (slide can cycle freely) and even the iron sights can still be used. The optic on top is just the cherry on the sundae.

 

I simply advised the OP to err on the side of caution. We can't expect the professional courtesy that you do. Hardly think that is being overly paranoid.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[joejaxx 38]

So Joe, just to clear this up, the features list ONLY pertains to firearms that have receivers that are clones of receivers of guns on the banned list? This state is just.....well..... :thsmiley_deadhorse:

 

Yeap just look at the actual AG letter that people are only posting portions of and are not posting what comes BEFORE the feature ban lists!:

 

I. Introduction

In recent weeks there has been a question about the meaning of the term "substantially identical"

in New Jersey's assault firearms law. The Legislature addressed this question in the provisions of

the Code of Criminal Justice, and despite the clarity of the law, it is appropriate for the Attorney

General to provide guidance to the prosecutors in order to ensure that the law is administered

uniformly and effectively throughout the State. N.J.S.A. 52:17B-98. I am directing the

prosecutors, as chief law enforcement officers of their respective counties, to share this guidance

with local police departments, who in turn should provide copies of this memorandum to any

member of the public who requests information on assault firearms.

 

II. Guidelines

 

New Jersey law lists firearms that are prohibited "assault firearms." N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(1). In

addition, the law provides that the term "assault firearm" includes, "Any firearm manufactured

under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed" in the law.

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-1w.(2). Thus, a firearm is an assault firearm if it is included on the list of banned

firearms or if it is manufactured under a different designation than a firearm on the list but is

"substantially identical" to a specific listed firearm. << [iE A CLONE BUT UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME]

 

We believe "substantially identical" is clear by its plain meaning. The Criminal Code provides

that the statutes in the Code must be read "according to the fair import of their terms." N.J.S.A.

2C:1-2c. The Criminal Code explains that where language may be susceptible to different

readings it must be construed to "give fair warning of the nature of the conduct proscribed."

N.J.S.A. 2C:1-2a.(4), c. Simply put, the phrase "substantially identical" must be given its plain

meaning, one that gives fair warning.

 

The term "substantial" means pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing.

The term "identical" means exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to

another only if it is identical in all material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially

identical to a listed assault firearm unless it is identical except for differences which do not alter

the essential nature of the firearm. [<< IE THE RECEIVER!!!]

 

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. [<< AGAIN IE THE RECEIVER!!! AS NONE OF THESE THINGS CHANGE THE RECEIVER!!!!!]

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in

all material respects, to a named assault weapon [iE HAS TO BE A CLONE OF SOMETHING ON THE LIST!!!] if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the

following:

a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a bayonet mount;

a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

5. a grenade launcher;

B. a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2

of the following:

1. an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

2. a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or

silencer;

3. a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the

shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

4. manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

5. a semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm; and,

C. a semi-automatic shotgun that has at least 2 of the following:

1. a folding or telescoping stock;

2. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

3. a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and

4. an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

III. Inquiries from Private Citizens

 

Law enforcement officers should, whenever possible, attempt to be helpful and to respond to inquiries concerning particular firearms. Private citizens should also be encouraged to consult with their own attorneys and, where necessary, referred to the Firearms Unit of the Division of State Police.

 

IV. Purpose and Effect of these Guidelines

 

In enforcing this law, prosecutors and police should remember that an assault firearms offense requires proof that the defendant knows he or she possesses an assault firearm, e.g., that the defendant knows that the firearm is "substantially identical" to one of the named assault weapons.

 

These guidelines should be followed by all county prosecutors and all law enforcement officers in this State so that the State's assault firearms laws will be uniformly enforced throughout the State.

 

 

Source: http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

And this is why it is so important to KNOW this stuff. You could be setting yourself up to admitting to having an assault weapon when it is not even considered an assault weapon. Do you really think the prosecutor is going to tell you that it is not? or remember that this directive exists? or try to help you in your defense? You do know that this directive came along because of a lawsuit about the Assault Weapon Ban being unconstitutionally vague in terms of the firearms LISTED on the ban right? This is not directed at anyone in particular. I am just talking in general.

[vjf915 456]

As always, thanks Joe!!

[vladtepes 1,060]

receivers that are clones of things on the list.

 

and you are going to trust the AG office to determine what is and what is not a clone?

you are dealing with a faction of government that is using vague words such as "clone" and you are trusting them to made firearms educated decisions on what is and what is not a clone.. that in my most humble opinion is a bad call...

 

clone

   /kloʊn/ Show Spelled [klohn] Show IPA noun, verb, cloned, clon·ing.

–noun

1.

Biology .

a.

a cell, cell product, or organism that is genetically identical to the unit or individual from which it was derived.

b.

a population of identical units, cells, or individuals that derive from the same ancestral line.

2.

a person or thing that duplicates, imitates, or closely resembles another in appearance, function, performance, or style: All the fashion models seemed to be clones of one another.

 

just to further validate the point.. is this the same attorney general's office that allows the sale of every AK clone in the world.. but forced the recall of IO inc AKs?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Pizza Bob, check and mate!

[halbautomatisch 60]

I'm still at a loss as to how this is SO OBVIOUSLY not a barrel shroud. Let's see, here's the definition...

 

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and

that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being

burned

 

Here is the optics mount in question...

 

 

Completely encircles the barrel....check

Permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned....check

 

voila....BARREL SHROUD

 

I have seen less well thought out designs on Bianchi Cup guns for shooting around barricades. The weak hand braces the gun against the barricade via the shroud. The gun remains functional (slide can cycle freely) and even the iron sights can still be used. The optic on top is just the cherry on the sundae.

 

I simply advised the OP to err on the side of caution. We can't expect the professional courtesy that you do. Hardly think that is being overly paranoid.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

My 2 cents. I think it would be a great stretch to construe that as a barrel shroud. It is certainly not designed to allow the pistol to be grabbed there and would be dangerous to do so, you could easily have your hand slip off and shoot yourself. I think a prosecutor would have a difficult time making that case, but then in the PRNJ anything could happen.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Yeap just look at the actual AG letter that people are only posting portions of and are not posting what comes BEFORE the feature ban lists!:

 

 

 

Source: http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

And this is why it is so important to KNOW this stuff. You could be setting yourself up to admitting to having an assault weapon when it is not even considered an assault weapon. Do you really think the prosecutor is going to tell you that it is not? or remember that this directive exists? or try to help you in your defense? You do know that this directive came along because of a lawsuit about the Assault Weapon Ban being unconstitutionally vague in terms of the firearms LISTED on the ban right? This is not directed at anyone in particular. I am just talking in general.

Again I think your right and are providing a public service by letting people know that they have a leg to stand on if they get falsely jammed up, but it's still going to cost you a fortune if you get charged. That's not something I would care to test out personally.

 

The other thing to know is that the NJSP will threaten dealers with license revocation if they sell anything questionable, that becomes the problem, if no one will sell it to you it is banned buy default.

[KpdPipes 388]

and you are going to trust the AG office to determine what is and what is not a clone?

you are dealing with a faction of government that is using vague words such as "clone" and you are trusting them to made firearms educated decisions on what is and what is not a clone.. that in my most humble opinion is a bad call...

 

 

 

just to further validate the point.. is this the same attorney general's office that allows the sale of every AK clone in the world.. but forced the recall of IO inc AKs?

The IO riflkes were MARKED AK-47...thats what made it a Named Firearm. Originally when they got the authorization they used the catalog number, which is different htan the model number. It was once they saw the markings that the IO's were de-authorized. Do I think it is stupid Bullsh..not? Absolutely. but unfortunately it DID fall under the ban the way it was marked. it's the CARBINE that is the dangerous one. That was NOT marked the same as the Originals, which then leaves ALL Of our firearms open to being problems.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The IO riflkes were MARKED AK-47...thats what made it a Named Firearm. Originally when they got the authorization they used the catalog number, which is different htan the model number. It was once they saw the markings that the IO's were de-authorized. Do I think it is stupid Bullsh..not? Absolutely. but unfortunately it DID fall under the ban the way it was marked. it's the CARBINE that is the dangerous one. That was NOT marked the same as the Originals, which then leaves ALL Of our firearms open to being problems.

 

 

see I thought that as well.. in fact that was the call I made when all this happened I even quoted Petros as saying he saw one marked that way in a local shop "AK".. BUT another member said the ultimate problem ended up being that it had a pistol grip.. I forget which member that was.. but again back to the actual issue....

 

The issue that I see is that while that list MAY ONLY apply to "clones" I am not interested in debating with someone who is mentally challenged when it comes to firearms logic (the DA) what is a clone and what is not.. far easier for the time being to just adhere to the evil feature game and error on the side of caution.. I may be giving up a little freedom by doing so... but a flash hider is just not worth that fight for me....

[vladtepes 1,060]

IO INC INFO.. Who has the right info? in this state.. good luck figuring that out.. what caused the IO banning? was it the name? was it the pistol grip? was it just a bad morning for the DA? who really knows..

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/19115-io-inc-rifles/page__st__60

 

Ok so I was talking to a very nice gentleman today and this is the intel that he provided. There was a settlement reached in the I.O. Inc case. All the changes so far seems to affect only I. O. Inc rifles. The biggest issue that NJ had with these rifles was >>> you guessed it or not but it was the pistol grip o.O I wudve never guessed. So now they are requiring I.O. Inc to change all the stocks to Saiga type. The stores Shud b getting a letter within couple of weeks stating the requirements. And now I'm not sure what to

do if they gonna change the stock.

PS of course I cant vouch for what he said 100% so I'm gonna put a disclaimer

Above statement is subject to change without notice

[KpdPipes 388]

see I thought that as well.. in fact that was the call I made when all this happened I even quoted Petros as saying he saw one marked that way in a local shop "AK".. BUT another member said the ultimate problem ended up being that it had a pistol grip.. I forget which member that was.. but again back to the actual issue....

 

The issue that I see is that while that list MAY ONLY apply to "clones" I am not interested in debating with someone who is mentally challenged when it comes to firearms logic (the DA) what is a clone and what is not.. far easier for the time being to just adhere to the evil feature game and error on the side of caution.. I may be giving up a little freedom by doing so... but a flash hider is just not worth that fight for me....

I agree..which is why all of my guns are compliant. I dont know about the pistol grip issue but i DO know that the rifles themselves were stamped (IIRC) AK47C or something of that nature..they were (and still are) Listed on the website by Model names. As I said the really scary thing this past year was the Auto Ordnance Carbines though.. here you have a firearm, that By the SAME RULES as every AR and AK Clone we own is NOT Identical, since it was marked differently than the "US Carbine M-1" that suddenly IS Somehow Identical to a banned firearm...all because of the Whim of the Current AG. I was pissed over the IO rifles, until i saw a photo of the markings..it sucks because they are US-made, and seemed decent, but marked AK47, it was only a matter of time before someone got jammed with one of them.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I agree..which is why all of my guns are compliant. I dont know about the pistol grip issue but i DO know that the rifles themselves were stamped (IIRC) AK47C or something of that nature..they were (and still are) Listed on the website by Model names. As I said the really scary thing this past year was the Auto Ordnance Carbines though.. here you have a firearm, that By the SAME RULES as every AR and AK Clone we own is NOT Identical, since it was marked differently than the "US Carbine M-1" that suddenly IS Somehow Identical to a banned firearm...all because of the Whim of the Current AG. I was pissed over the IO rifles, until i saw a photo of the markings..it sucks because they are US-made, and seemed decent, but marked AK47, it was only a matter of time before someone got jammed with one of them.

 

 

Again I could not agree more.. I hope to leave for PA... where the laws are more favorable.. but I still can't help but to care about what is going on in NJ.. it is pretty ridiculous..