51 replies to this topic

[Aleshka]

I am thinking of moving into .45 ACP territory and 1911 platform doesn't fit my hand very well.
Also, would prefer a higher capacity mags (or should I call them clips now?)

Any experience with either one?

Thanks!

[henrym]

I own a px4 in .40 and have nothing but good things to say about it. Never had a misfeed with any ammo, no failures to extract. Its also very soft shooting due to the rotating barrel design.

[DevsAdvocate]

Glock 21?

[Aleshka]

Thought of Glocks but would prefer a hammer-fired ones

[lunker]

I am thinking of moving into .45 ACP territory and 1911 platform doesn't fit my hand very well.
Also, would prefer a higher capacity mags (or should I call them clips now?)

Any experience with either one?

Thanks!

If you like all steel guns, try a Beretta Cougar 8045 (or the currently made clone made by Stoeger on Beretta equipment). It is the predecessor to the Storm. It also uses the rotating barrel lockup and is a really soft shooter.

[Vlad G]

There are lots of hi-cap .45s, and neither of those would be on my top list, personally. Check out the M&P 45, the glock 21, CZ 97b, wide-body 1911's from Para, STI, etc. I would consider the FN and the Beretta as functional firearms, but second tier.

[Krdshrk]

I tried a Springfield XD45. Love it. I have a Px4 in 9mm and it's great. I know someone that uses a Px4 .45 for IDPA with good results.

[lunker]

There are lots of hi-cap .45s, and neither of those would be on my top list, personally. Check out the M&P 45, the glock 21, CZ 97b, wide-body 1911's from Para, STI, etc. I would consider the FN and the Beretta as functional firearms, but second tier.

The Beretta and FN are certainly not as popular as the M&P and Glock, but don't take a back seat to either in my opinion. I consider just about anything made by Para to be third tier (and I actually like their LDA 1911s). I am also a fan of CZs in general. The palm swell on the 97B is for people with biggish hands though. I know Shore Shot has one in their display case. Stop by and fondle it if you are interested. I have never held an STI 2011, but hear good things.

[Aleshka]

Thanks for the advice, I guess I would need to research a few more. CZ97 should be good - I already have CZ75 but would probably look for something different since I think they will be too similar. XD45 - tried it in .40 and wasn't impressed. I wonder if M&P would be very similar to XD, but will try it out. Beretta/Stoeger Cougar is something definitely worth checking out - somehow missed that.

[Vlad G]

It is an issue of ergonomics. I think the PX4 and the FN are less comfortable then the ones I've listed (note I excluded the H&K line which I find very strangely shaped). I assume the OP already has large hands or wouldn't be looking for a high cap .45. Para's can have some issues, but they can be worked around.

My recommendations are based on what I've seen people shoot well in competition, and what I've seen people have trouble with.

[Krdshrk]

It all depends on your hands. I don't have large hands but the XD45 feels great in my grip.

[Aleshka]

I would say I have large hands since CZ75, 92FS and other double stack fit well but with 1911, TT33 and such I can't hit a whale in 10ft

[lunker]

I would say I have large hands since CZ75, 92FS and other double stack fit well but with 1911, TT33 and such I can't hit a whale in 10ft

The 1911 and TT are both great guns. I have the same problem with my Yugo M57. They make wraparound grips that greatly increase the size of the grip. Hogue and others make grips like that for the 1911 as well. I am not trying to persuade you one way or the other, but I wouldn't abandon a good platform for grip issues if they can be worked around.

Vlad, I would love to see a good working Para. I think the LDA trigger on a 1911 is super-cool. I appreciate the company's willingness to try something new and different. I like the Beretta ergos. I do agree with you about FN. It is blocky like a Glock.

[axeman_g]

You must have MONGO hands then. The FN45USG is a great gun... softest shooting .45 I have ever fired. It also has ewvery ergonimic function and capability you could ever want. Rail, yep. Ambi everything, yep. Hammer... yep. Great combat sites, yep. 3 mags 14+ rds ... yep.

I have avg+ hands and it was large. Two issues, holster availability and the stipling is sharp.

The FN is a great gun. I sold mine regrettably to consolidate my ammo stores into 9mm and 10mm. I would buy it back or get another in a heartbeat.

[lunker]

I sold mine regrettably to consolidate my ammo stores into 9mm and 10mm. I would buy it back or get another in a heartbeat.

I did that a while back, but realized that I missed the easy accuracy and soft recoil impulse of the 45ACP. Needless to say, I have a Colt Series 70 and am back to shooting 45ACP.

[Vlad G]

Vlad, I would love to see a good working Para.

Shoot USPSA, a bunch of folks use Para's, you'll see lots of them and they work. They are used as a cheaper version of a 2011, a hi-cap 1911 option. That is not to say that Para can't put out some dogs somedays. Their proprietary extractor had some issues in the early versions.

[PeteF]

I know you said you were looking at 2 particular guns, but if you are looking for other suggestions,
I would recommend you try a Sig 220. They have a similar grip size to the 92FS, all metal and extremely reliable.

[Mannym21]

The FN is a great gun. I sold mine regrettably to consolidate my ammo stores into 9mm and 10mm. I would buy it back or get another in a heartbeat.

Did you sell yours to Shane? If you did I bought yours and it shoots like a dream. With that being said, I've shot the PX4 and have a FNP .45 and I'd take my FN any day. My hands aren't all that large and it fits perfect to me. Little recoil, came with 2 14 rounds magazines and one 15 round. I don't know what more to say but it's a great gun.

[Ray Ray]

Beretta and FN are NOT second tier firearms. Whoever said that should reconsider that comment.

If we go by the choices you are looking at, shoot both and then see what you like. My vote is for the Beretta, since they've been doing guns right for a loooooooong time.

[axeman_g]

Did you sell yours to Shane? If you did I bought yours and it shoots like a dream. With that being said, I've shot the PX4 and have a FNP .45 and I'd take my FN any day. My hands aren't all that large and it fits perfect to me. Little recoil, came with 2 14 rounds magazines and one 15 round. I don't know what more to say but it's a great gun.

Yep... you have mine. Treat her nice as she is the one I let get and never should have. You mistreat her, and I will swoop her away from you. For cash of course.

[Mannym21]

Yep... you have mine. Treat her nice as she is the one I let get and never should have. You mistreat her, and I will swoop her away from you. For cash of course.

Oh I will do, she easily became my most favorite out of all the ones I have. If your ever want to reunite with her just let me know, but she's still coming home with me

[Vlad G]

Beretta and FN are NOT second tier firearms. Whoever said that should reconsider that comment.

Yup, I said it, and I stand by it. They are PERFECTLY usable firearms, nothing wrong with either, but as far as I'm concerned there are better options. If I wanted a double stack .45 with a hammer I would save my coin until I could afford and STI, but most likely I would buy an M&P.

But that is for ME. Everyone is allowed to have their opinion.

[RecessedFilter]

Don't forget about Witness'.

[Aleshka]

I would assume the Witness would be very close to CZ, and I am looking for a different platform. Not because I don't like CZ - just want to expand to another.
I should probably try the wide body 1911 - maybe they would fit better. SIG's are out of the price range I have in mind as well as the higher end 1911s.
I handled FNP at Firearms Guild and it fits well. Obviously I should try it first since the 1911 feels great too - I just can't hit anything with it
And I think I still need to take a closer look at Stoeger Cougar. All steel, hammer, rotating barrel... sounds interesting.

[ronhonda]

Friends don't let friends shoot and buy Cougars.
But i suggest you look into a wide body 2011 from STI in 45acp.

[Aleshka]

hm... are they that bad?

[axeman_g]

Look for a preloved Beretta Cougar ($400) or SIG 220 ($500+). I like the concept of the SIG, I just dont like the trigger (SIG lovers relax) and the 8rd cap.

The FN runs $500+ right now.... it is the best deal out there.

[Jon]

I would add the XDM45 to the list.

[lunker]

hm... are they that bad?

Nope. Cougar is an excellent gun, in 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP. Think of it as a shorter framed 92FS, with equal reliability. The ergos are excellent, IMO, and the rotating barrel really reduces the recoil. It was my home defense gun for quite a while, if that explains how much I trusted it.
Ron is a competition guy, and I don't think he is high on Berettas in USPSA. The only way I would buy a 2011 is if I were into USPSA competition. I think those things are ugly as sin.
And I believe that you could be competitive in IDPA with any of the Cougar models. First shot double action is a ****, but I would think you get used to it.

[ronhonda]

Nope. Cougar is an excellent gun, in 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP. Think of it as a shorter framed 92FS, with equal reliability. The ergos are excellent, IMO, and the rotating barrel really reduces the recoil. It was my home defense gun for quite a while, if that explains how much I trusted it.
Ron is a competition guy, and I don't think he is high on Berettas in USPSA. The only way I would buy a 2011 is if I were into USPSA competition. I think those things are ugly as sin.
And I believe that you could be competitive in IDPA with any of the Cougar models. First shot double action is a ****, but I would think you get used to it.

Yes I am a competition guy.
Several people (successfully) have used the Beretta in competition and reached GM level.
I have played with a 92fs and a Cougar 40s&w for 2 years before ever shooting a USPSA match. Hell I even considered buying a 92fs as my 1st gun. But then I shot a 1911.......
IMHO the Cougar is a piece of crap. It is ugly, shoots like crap, just not a good gun.
The 92fs was far from stock and a real nice shooter. But it was not for me.
Yes you can be competitive with a Beretta in USPSA/IDPA, but with the guns available from Glock, S&W, and Springfield plus the accessories you can get for them why would you handicap yourself?
You can customize any one of the mentioned brands to your liking. From mild to wild.
Also the 2011 ugly as sin? I don't think so. From a box stock model to a custom one from any competent gunsmith, they are ALL works of art.
It pains me when someone said that the 92fs is the BEST looking handgun out there.
Anyway back to the topic...........