Ideal first handgun? - Glock 19 Gen 4 vs Beretta Commercial M9

[Blackwater 0]

Whats going on guys? I'm new to the forums and firearms. I'm looking at different options for my first handgun. I know at the very least I should get the gun in my hands before deciding, but a few opinions would be a great help.

 

>>Currently I'm torn between the Beretta Commercial M9 vs a Glock 19 Gen 4

 

 

1) So my biggest issue is that the Glock does not have any external safeties. Is this a good idea for a first handgun? Obviously the safety between your ears is the most important but as far as first handguns go is this gun a smart choice?

 

2) Whats up with the Gen 4's - I heard people having problems with failures to feed/extract- Picky with ammo??

 

3) If the Gen 4 isnt a good choice - Can you still buy the Glock 19 Gen 3 new in box?

 

4) I heard there have been issues with the M9 magazines running dirty. Opinions?

 

 

Main Point: Basically I want a handgun that will go bang when I pull the trigger 99.9% of the time. Something that is both reliable and durable. Something I can depend on that works no matter what kind of ammo is going through it. (cheap or expensive).

[CageFighter 236]

I have a G19_Gen4. Its been trouble-free from day one! Never any FTE or FTF with any ammo Ive used. It was my first gun!

[JTQ911 2]

Handle both. I bought an XD as my first and ordered online. Just didn't speak to me, now the 1911 on the other hand...I digress. I've read a lot of problems with the new glocks. If you decide on glock, I'd look for the Gen 3 RTF. Glock built their rep on a certain design. It worked. Then they changed it (gen 4) and in began to use some less expensive manufacturing processes. In my humble opinion let them get the bugs worked out; they will eventually. Same as never buying 1st year of a new model of a car.

[Malsua 1,422]

Would you get in an airplane that stays in the air 99.9% of the time?

 

If not, why trust your life to that poor of a reliability rate?

 

Even though I'm not a fan of Glocks, they are reliable with the exception of some of the 4th gen with extraction problems.

 

You can say the Berettas are perfect but I've seen locked up ones and ones with misfeeds. I've never seen that with Glocks.

 

Personally, I'd get an HK or a Sig, but they are definitely more money.

[Blackwater 0]

Thanks guys for the replies - helped a lot.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Comparing apples to oranges really - try 'em out and see which one fits you the best.

 

You may even find something slightly different that is just plain right for you (like I found my Px4 Storm).

[JTQ911 2]

You might want to look into Sig CPO's, I have a 220 and its been 100%

 

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-certified-pre-owned.aspx

 

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/226_CPO.html

 

 

They have 1yr warranty

[GRIZ 3,369]

I think the G19 is the best all around Glock 9mm. I'd give Glock an edge in reliability and durability but the Beretta is also a good choice.

[mcbethr 42]

As a first gun, you cannot go wrong with the Beretta 92, Sig P226 or Glock 19.

 

I own a Beretta 92 and I love it. Try them out. See what fits you best.

[heaterbob 53]

cant go wrong with a nice 1911

[oofogbp 3]

Welcome to the forum!

I personally am not a glock guy so I cant speak to them.

 

On the other hand I've had a m9 for the past few years and love it. I have yet to have a single ftf/fte no matter what I'm running through it. Easily one of my favorites.

 

But if you can, try and get some lead down range with both to see what feels best.

If your near central jersey, your welcome to try out my m9 and put it through its paces.

 

Good luck

[Soju 153]

I completely agree with the people who say to handle them both, and get the one that feels the best. In fact, if there are other similar pistols in a similar price range, you should try them too. Personally, when talking about handguns like this, there isn't actually a whole lot of difference in terms of reliability. Take your pick of any of the popular pistols, from proven manufactures. They should all go bang at a similar reliability rate if you maintain them. So arguing reliability of a glock vs. 92, or a M&P vs a XD/XDm is kind of moot. Pick the platform that works for you (in terms of comfort and shootability).

 

If it was me, and it came down to the Glock vs the Beretta M9, I would get the M9 for 2 reasons. I already own a polymer framed pistol (M&P), and the M9 is my duty firearm, so owning my own would allow me to practice with it more and become more proficient. Assuming nothing like this applies to you, try them both out and let want you really want when you are handling them become your decision.

[DblEGT 1]

Get a Beretta 92A1 (updated version of the Beretta 92FS)

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Glock 19 for everything including CCW.

Beretta for looks and style.

 

But I like dem boff yo!

[Blackwater 0]

Good lookin' out fellas. I'll post some gun porn when I finally get what I want.

[scig 12]

Whats going on guys? I'm new to the forums and firearms. I'm looking at different options for my first handgun. I know at the very least I should get the gun in my hands before deciding, but a few opinions would be a great help.

 

>>Currently I'm torn between the Beretta Commercial M9 vs a Glock 19 Gen 4

 

 

1) So my biggest issue is that the Glock does not have any external safeties. Is this a good idea for a first handgun? Obviously the safety between your ears is the most important but as far as first handguns go is this gun a smart choice?

 

2) Whats up with the Gen 4's - I heard people having problems with failures to feed/extract- Picky with ammo??

 

3) If the Gen 4 isnt a good choice - Can you still buy the Glock 19 Gen 3 new in box?

 

4) I heard there have been issues with the M9 magazines running dirty. Opinions?

 

 

Main Point: Basically I want a handgun that will go bang when I pull the trigger 99.9% of the time. Something that is both reliable and durable. Something I can depend on that works no matter what kind of ammo is going through it. (cheap or expensive).

[scig 12]

Blackwater,

 

First of all let me say welcome to the Forum.

Your first gun and all those after your first should feel comfortable in your hand, in other words it should fit properly. Everbody has a different hand size so not all guns

will fit the same way for all people. The biggest mistake you can make is to ask people what kind of a gun you should buy. Everybody has their own favorite gun but that doesn't mean that is the gun for you. Go to a range where you can rent different handguns and choose the gun and caliber with which you are the most comfotable and proficient. Take your time make sure the gun is right for you because once you buy it if you don't like it you'll lose alot of money on a resale.

I hope this helps you, remember be patient and think smart you can't go wrong.

 

SCIG

[rauchman 3]

I have a Beretta 92FS, a Gen2 G19, Gen3 G19 and Gen4 G23.

 

As others have said, try to shoot them first and handle them. Very different feels.

 

Beretta Pro's

Accurate

Cheap Mags (btw, if you stick w/ Beretta factory and/or MecGar mags{MecGar does runs of mag production for Beretta and Sig}, you should have no mag issues)

Very smooth and low recoiling - The Beretta 92/96 slide feels like it's on glass.

Smooth trigger

Large - Nice for a range gun

Sights - At least on mine, that was from '94, the sights are kind of small and are excellent for accurate shooting. I don't know if they've changed from mine, but mine can not be changed out as there is no dovetail.

 

Con's

Grip is big and the DA trigger is a long reach

Long / little heavy trigger pull. If you replace the main spring w/ the one from the 92"D" model, this will lighten the trigger nicely

Heavier than the Glock

Slide mounted safety - Most folks prefer a frame mounted safety, for others, this is no big deal.

Large- Big for carry (living in NJ, this is probably not an issue)

Typical weakness in the design is the locking block. I forget the expected lifespan of these (I want to say 20K, but not sure if that's correct).

Sights- While the small sights are great for accuracy at the range, they aren't the best for a quick sight picture.

 

Gen4 G19 Pro's

Accurate - I know many people don't find Glocks to be accurate, but in my experience, Glocks will run w/ just about anything comparable

Lightweight

Mags and parts are cheap and plentiful

Consistent trigger w/ very good reset

Trigger can be customized w/ parts and polishing relatively cheaply

Long sight radius for size of pistol.

Compact - The G19 is arguably, the most efficient marriage of firepower and size.

 

Con's

Trigger does not have the graceful feel that is found on the Single Action trigger of a Beretta, Sig, etc.

Trigger, for me, was hard to master and took A LOT of dry fire and range practice.

Many reports of "issues" on the Gen4 G19. I LOVE the G19, but have to admit, the many "issues" I've read about would prompt me to research how far fixes have evolved. Having said that, my Gen4 G23 has been flawless in 750 rnds so far.

Lack of a manually operated safety. The Glock does require the user to be very cognisant of firearms safety.

Compact - The G17 is a better range gun (have one of those too).

Typical weakness in design - I shattered the breach area of my Gen2 G19 from excessive dry fire w/out snap caps. I also broke the trigger spring. I understand the trigger bar in the new Glocks have a slightly redesigned tang that holds the trigger spring and is supposed to help lengthen trigger spring life. As far as the breach shattering, don't dry fire w/out snap caps.

Stock sights are not the best. If you want to shoot for accuracy, change out the sights or buy w/ night sights already installed. I have a mix of Trijicons and Meprolights Night Sights for my 5 Glocks and they both have a much superior sight picture as compared to the stock sights. The stock sights do work well for reactive tactical type shooting, but are too coarse for finer shooting. Most night sights give a good combination of both fast and precision.

 

Both guns are really nice and excel in the type of pistol they are. If it were I, I would probably start w/ the Beretta as a newbie shooter. It's an easier to gun to learn on for accuracy at the range. The Glock, for me, was harder to get good on. I can now put 5 rnds into 1" or so at 15 yards on a good day. Took a lot of dry fire and range time to get there, and I know there are a lot better shooters than me. For me, the Glock is more rewarding to shoot. The Beretta, along w/ Sigs, are a little easier to shoot for accuracy w/ their smooth SA trigger. I think the Glock is a better expression of a modern combat pistol, pure tool. The Beretta, being a metal pistol and being Italian, has an elegance and grace to it that the Glock will never have.

[djg0770 481]

Good lookin' out fellas. I'll post some gun porn when I finally get what I want.

 

I see you're in Montclair - where are you currently looking at pistols? There are 4 stores in your immediate area.

[Old School 611]

Whats going on guys? I'm new to the forums and firearms. I'm looking at different options for my first handgun. I know at the very least I should get the gun in my hands before deciding, but a few opinions would be a great help.

 

>>Currently I'm torn between the Beretta Commercial M9 vs a Glock 19 Gen 4

 

AH! This is my thread!!!

 

 

1) So my biggest issue is that the Glock does not have any external safeties. Is this a good idea for a first handgun? Obviously the safety between your ears is the most important but as far as first handguns go is this gun a smart choice? Three internal safeties and one of the easiest pistols to train on. That is why it is adopted by so many PDs

 

2) Whats up with the Gen 4's - I heard people having problems with failures to feed/extract- Picky with ammo?? There were a very few issues with very early production guns. The recoil springs have been updated.

 

3) If the Gen 4 isnt a good choice - Can you still buy the Glock 19 Gen 3 new in box? Gen 3's are still available. Gen 4's will probably hold their value better.

 

4) I heard there have been issues with the M9 magazines running dirty. Opinions?

 

 

Main Point: Basically I want a handgun that will go bang when I pull the trigger 99.9% of the time. Something that is both reliable and durable. Something I can depend on that works no matter what kind of ammo is going through it. (cheap or expensive). You are welcome to shoot my GLOCKs. But no burying it in the mud for an endurance test. BTW these are 100% reliable guns when left in stock form

[Old School 611]

Handle both. I bought an XD as my first and ordered online. Just didn't speak to me, now the 1911 on the other hand...I digress. I've read a lot of problems with the new glocks. If you decide on glock, I'd look for the Gen 3 RTF. Glock built their rep on a certain design. It worked. Then they changed it (gen 4) and in began to use some less expensive manufacturing processes. In my humble opinion let them get the bugs worked out; they will eventually. Same as never buying 1st year of a new model of a car.

 

I call BS on this post!!

[JTQ911 2]

what part? i knew i should have posted links while i had them open. let me know and i will go through my history tomorrow and try to find it. i believe it was a threads i read on m4carbine forum.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

1) So my biggest issue is that the Glock does not have any external safeties. Is this a good idea for a first handgun? Obviously the safety between your ears is the most important but as far as first handguns go is this gun a smart choice? Three internal safeties and one of the easiest pistols to train on. That is why it is adopted by so many PDs have ND's with them

 

 

Fixed it for you Frank Flame onnnnnn..........

[JTQ911 2]

btw, I suggest trying a 1911 before buying. I bought plastic pistols, then sigs, then few random guns, then found the 1911. Easiest for many to shoot accurately, so many upgrades available, and it feels perfect. Just try one, trust me. If you hate it, then you ruled out an enyire platform and saved yourself money later in life. If you're ever at shore shot, let me know- You can shoot my xd9, sig 228, sig 220, or springfield custom shop 1911

[Old School 611]

Fixed it for you Frank Flame onnnnnn..........

 

 

Hey Bob - I guess there are A$$holes in every line of work. "Booger picker off the bang switch." Is it that hard?

 

Hey some of these guys can't tell the difference between a Taser and a firearm.

[Old School 611]

what part? i knew i should have posted links while i had them open. let me know and i will go through my history tomorrow and try to find it. i believe it was a threads i read on m4carbine forum.

 

 

Here's the deal. Gen 3&4 are the same design with some parts different. There are no cost reduction measures taken in the Gen 4 actually the contrary.

 

Don't believe everything you read. Meet me at the range and shoot the hell out of different stuff.

 

Now on the other hand I only own 9mm Glocks. Why?

[JTQ911 2]

Now on the other hand I only own 9mm Glocks. Why?

 

because thats what they were designed for and the other ones explode. Seriously, give me the weekend to try and find that info. I've heard from a few sources that glock released gen4 without enough testing and did in fact change the manufacturing process on what I believe to be the extractor and I remember multiple iterations of the recoil spring assembly. I love the glock design and have the gen 2 g19 but I am not yet convinced that the Gen 4 have worked out their bugs. From my own VERY unscientific observations it seems to me I see many more used Gen 4 glocks for sale than Gen 3 or Gen 3 RTF.

[djg0770 481]

Old School is a Glock Lover if you haven't figured that out yet... He's really really good at this too: :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[JTQ911 2]

some google search on my phone while at the in laws today turned up some interesting threads on 10-8 forum, m4carbine, xdtalk, and even ar15.com

 

1st Major issue creeping up with law enforcement and trainers who collectively put many rounds down range with the new gen 4 glocks is the extractors. Many failure to eject starting with late Gen 4 release in 2010. Extractors went from machined investment cast to MIM, A CHEAPER manufacturing process.

 

2nd Major issue is the new dual recoil spring assembly. Glock always used the same springs for the 9 and the 40. With the new system they seem to be having, or at least had, issues with compensating for using hot self defense loads in the slide battering 40 with underpowered range ammo in the 9. My count is they have gone through 4 iterations of this assembly.

 

Two MAJOR PD's including Oakland recalled all of their Gen 4 glocks and reissued their old sidearms. Glock is going to figure this out. They are mailing out new recoil assemblies to those who complain and even new extractors, but some officers who replaced these parts are still having issues.

 

Another scary one I just remember reading was one officer who TWICE had plastic from the new assembly rub off while at the range and give him a dead trigger. TWICE. In a duty issued pistol after completing his quals. Thank god it was at the range.

 

If you got a Gen 4 and it runs out of the box, it seems you're in the clear, but for those that don't, its evident in the first couple boxes of ammo usually.

 

For someone who is buying their 1st handgun, potentially on the internet, with no way to know what recoil assembly in it, and little firearms experience to diagnose and repair said firearm, I again strongly suggest staying away from Gen 4 as a beginner gun.

 

 

That's my humble opinion, I just don't have the time or money to go through guns that currently have KNOWN reliability issues.

 

Some links

 

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/171570-wary-gen4-glocks.html

 

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96150&page=2 Read kevins post, a glock fanboy from '91

 

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=112196 the cheaper parts

[JTQ911 2]

Again, nothing against Glock, but some people rely on these tools in life or death situations. The majority of us won't. But Glock DOES have issues with their Gen 4 pistols in my opinion, and some people, especially a beginner, would be better served or stands to potentially save a lot of money and or heartache avoiding a platform that does not have the bugs worked out.

 

Even more dangerous us someone who has the utmost confidence in product because of its reputation regardless of user maintenance. My father carried a smith and wesson 9mm auto in the early 90's. Trusted smith and wesson his whole career with revolvers. Never shot except for quals. After quals he would come home spray with gunscrubber, put it in the holster bone dry. He was asking for a jam with no lube until he got called on it by another officer. The point was, he did't know better. He wasn't in the loop, he didn't use it in between quals to see it would jam. I feel i :thsmiley_deadhorse: enough tonight. Goodnight.