Can I bring guns over state lines for target shooting? (NJ to PA)

[North Jersey Dave 0]

I am planning a trip to Pennsylvania to do some target shooting and want to bring my shotgun and handguns. Are there any legal restrictions in bringing licenses guns over state lines? Assuming they are locked up in trunk appropriately and legally per both state regulations with ammo being separate and guns not accessible.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

You're fine.

[MedicYeti 96]

Yes. I do it frequently. No issues at all.

[Parker 213]

Perfectly legal to do. This may or may not apply in your case but I'll throw this out there depending on where you plan to shoot. Those who plan to use the ranges on PGC State Game Lands now need a permit. Pennsylvania requires the purchase of a "shooting range permit" to allow use of the ranges located on state game lands scattered throughout the state. OR, you simply need to be in possession of a Pennsylvania hunting or furtaking license.

 

From the PGC link to PDF; Page 10: PA 2010-2011 Digest

 

STATE GAME LANDS SHOOTING RANGE PERMITS

Permits are now required for individuals who do not possess a valid

Pennsylvania hunting or furtaking license to use Game Lands shooting

ranges, including designated clay bird shooting areas. Range permits

will be issued to persons 16 years of age or older. A permitted person is

allowed one guest. Permits must be in possession, but do not have to be

displayed. Permits are $30 and must be purchased by credit card through

The Outdoor Shop on the Game Commission website, or at PGC region

offices and Harrisburg headquarters. Permits are effective May 1,

2011 (first year permit good until June 30, 2012). After the first year,

permit period is from July 1, 2012 through June 30, 2013.

 

Might be useful for some to know, as it's no longer free.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

So this applies to State-owned land only, not private facilities?

 

And furtaking permit, never heard of that before. Does a Brazilian wax place need one too?

 

Sorry, just had to.

[Parker 213]

So this applies to State-owned land only, not private facilities?

 

And furtaking permit, never heard of that before. Does a Brazilian wax place need one too?

 

Sorry, just had to.

Correct. State-owned land only. PA Public Shooting Ranges & Guidelines

 

"Furtaking" has different connotations and guidelines for the three states I'm familiar with; NY, NJ & PA. To trap or hunt predators is usually the definition of such, and sometimes a trapping license is required, or a hunting license, or the completion of a state trapping course is mandatory, etc. Seasonal conflicts when concurrent or non-concurrent with big game season dictates what type of license you need to be in possession of when hunting, etc. Guidelines and rules are different in each state.

 

A B-wax sounds like it would afford a chill in the winter months. I'll pass.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

 

And furtaking permit, never heard of that before. Does a Brazilian wax place need one too?

 

 

Didn't NJ try and make them illegal last year???

 

Harry

[halbautomatisch 60]

You're fine.

If going to PA, don't take handguns into NY if NY is your destination.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

How about a shotgun into NY ? I want to shoot clays at a friends place.

[Malsua 1,422]

How about a shotgun into NY ? I want to shoot clays at a friends place.

 

Long guns are fine in NY.

 

Handguns are pretty much off limits entirely except for NRA sanctioned events of which you are enrolled and have the paperwork to prove it or Olympic competitions. You can _NEVER_ have a pistol in NY under any other circumstance under NY law. FOPA only protects you if you're passing through otherwise you can have no legal destination with a handgun in NY.

[JaredC 6]

Long guns are fine in NY.

 

Handguns are pretty much off limits entirely except for NRA sanctioned events of which you are enrolled and have the paperwork to prove it or Olympic competitions. You can _NEVER_ have a pistol in NY under any other circumstance under NY law. FOPA only protects you if you're passing through otherwise you can have no legal destination with a handgun in NY.

 

 

nyc or nys?

[usnmars 136]

I try to avoid shooting in NJ so pretty much all of my shooting is in PA. Bring em out and have some fun.

[Malsua 1,422]

nyc or nys?

 

The entire New York State. It is not legal for a non-resident to have a handgun anywhere in NY except those two tiny exemptions.

[heaterbob 53]

in nys it is a felony for any one 21 and over to shoot a handgun without a pistol permit even at a range.

[RecessedFilter 222]

As everyone else has said, you're fine. I don't think anything that is legal in NJ is illegal in PA haha. The only range I am a member of is in PA.

 

And for rifles, no mags over 10rds in NY either I believe.

[Little Red Rooster 0]

What if you are traveling to a NY airport from NJ to take your handgun and long gun out west to another state (Montana) where you are legally allowed to bring with you? Are you protected under the FOPA safe passage provision in that scenario??

[Malsua 1,422]

What if you are traveling to a NY airport from NJ to take your handgun and long gun out west to another state (Montana) where you are legally allowed to bring with you? Are you protected under the FOPA safe passage provision in that scenario??

 

Theoretically you're covered under FOPA. The reality is they have been and still are arresting people at New York airports on weapons charges when they declare their firearms to the TSA. The most recent I found in the news was in December and likely a political arrest as well. http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-15/justice/justice_new-york-tea-party-arrest_1_gun-charge-tea-party-patriots-firearms-violation?_s=PM:JUSTICE

 

There are probably thousands of people doing this every day at New York airports. Do you feel lucky?

 

If it were me I'd find another way to get my handgun out to Montana.

[Malsua 1,422]

This article is dated April 3, 2012.

---------

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50508

 

NYC courts continue to 'shakedown' legal gun owners at airports

 

 

 

Only in New York City could three separate law enforcement agencies obfuscate responsibility for upholding gun laws and resort to finger pointing as their defense to shamelessly robbing the public under color of the “rule of law.” Not surprisingly, the Second Amendment receives an inordinate amount of attention, but not much legal scrutiny from self-serving New Yorkers and the entities they represent.

 

New York authorities rely on the honesty of air travelers transiting through the state with lawfully owned firearms, who become victims upon disclosure under Federal law of their weapon possession, to create a well-oiled, gun-eating, revenue-raising machine. New York City’s Mayor Bloomberg’s interpretation of the Second Amendment nabs unsuspecting airline passengers (hundreds have been ensnared the past few years) jails and fines them.

 

New York City is a gun-free zone, and one requires permission from Bloomberg’s administration to carry a weapon within the city -- and that permission rarely happens. For security purposes the City often relies on the service of off-duty or retired NYPD to keep the peace in the bustling metropolis of the Big Apple. However, unsuspecting travelers at area airports are apprehended for simply passing through this City to their final destination where it is lawful to have a firearm in their possession.

 

 

Combine these heavy-handed tactics with the Department of Justice (DOJ) policy of suing states for laws it favors and Americans have a new recipe for dictatorial leadership. Lately, Attorney General Eric Holder has been in the business of suing individual states for allegedly trumping federal law, most notably illegal immigration and voting laws. While the DOJ picks and chooses its causes, they have chosen to let New York’s Port Authority Police seize lawfully owned firearms from travelers at its airports.

 

After 9/11, the U.S. government set up a number of safety measures to protect air travelers, and as a result they created the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) as the federal overseer of airport security. TSA is in charge of security at most major U.S. airports—except New York, which has hijacked control from local TSA agents.

 

New York City’s firearms interdiction and enforcement interferes with the airport security chain of command. It is here the finger pointing starts and the doubletalk reigns supreme.

 

The responsibility and non- responsibility approach

 

This reporter’s recent visit to TSA’s Washington DC headquarters seeking a resolution of this jurisdictional conflict yielded no answers. A phone conversation in the lobby went something like this; “Hi, I’m the reporter from California who has been talking to you via the phone regarding the security measures at LaGuardia Airport and wanted to clarify a few things. Do you have a minute?”

 

TSA spokesperson Greg Soule then replies; “Sure.”

 

This reporter answers; “Great, I’m in the lobby can you come down and meet me, I only need 5 minutes?”

 

Mr. Soule replies; “Aaa… well… actually I can’t come down, but I can refer you to our website.”

Wow, it’s an interesting strategy the TSA employs at their DC headquarters. Another phone call to TSA spokesperson Mike McCarthy confirms TSA is indeed in charge of airport security. Great news. Finally someone can explain why New York City’s Port Authority Police shows up at the ticket counter and arrests travelers when they attempt to check in their TSA-approved locked and unloaded firearm’s cases into checked baggage. Unfortunately, that’s not the case, and Mr. McCarthy says there must be a “special agreement” to supersede TSA’s authority.

 

Further investigation leads to the New York Port Authority Police. A call to Port Authority’s Press Officer Al Della Fave yields an explanation that officers at the airports are only doing what they are legally bound to do. "Our officers are obligated to follow the two New York State gun laws mandates written by City's legal community.The State gun laws are covered in two sections within New York Penal law: article 265 - Firearms and Other Dangerous Weapons; and article 400 - Licensing and Other Provisions Relating to Firearms," Fave explained. "The law is clear you cannot carry a weapon without a permit in New York City."

 

Fair enough, rank-and-file officers are pretty good about following orders, and there is no indication that this case is any different in New York.

 

So far, the common denominator with all the agencies is the explicit “special agreement” and if there were a document out there, surely the District Attorney’s office would have a copy of the document.

 

“I have checked with our executive staff and there is no Memorandum of Understanding between the District Attorney's Office and either the TSA or Port Authority Police Department,” said Kevin R. Ryan, director of communications for the Queens County District Attorney’s office.

 

So, the DA admits that there is no “memo” or “special agreement” between the Queen’s County District Attorney’s office, New York Port Authority Police and the TSA that justifies Port Authority Police supersede federal law at their airports. Normally, Federal law requires some sort of Memo of Understanding (MOU) between states and municipalities as currently TSA regulates the interstate transportation of firearms.

 

Knowing New York City has the nation’s toughest gun laws (after a ton of research) it appears New York City is serious about keeping the city a gun-free zone. Again, fair enough, but if New Yorkers are so concerned about firearms entering their jurisdiction, then why aren’t they apprehending the lawful gun owners as they leave the airport with their firearms in their luggage?

 

TSA keeps a record of all firearms that passengers carry in their “checked” luggage. One would assume law enforcement wouldn’t want those firearms on the city sidewalks, right?

 

“While I cannot speak on behalf of the TSA, I can tell you that we have never been notified by the TSA of somebody traveling to New York with a weapon. The most likely reason is that the TSA would not be aware of the person's licensing status in New York,” Ryan went on to explain.

However, TSA confirms they keep a record of all firearms and haven’t been asked by the DA’s office for notification.

 

The frustration continues, and nobody is taking responsibility or providing constructive answers for those who travel through New York.

 

Determined to get to the bottom of this issue this reporter called the airline ticket counter at LaGuardia Airport to set the record straight. The call goes something like; “Hi there I’m calling to find out what process I can expect when I get to the airport today. I left California and traveled to New Jersey through LaGuardia with my firearm, which I’m licensed to carry and is stored in the TSA-approved case. I’m headed back later today and wanted to know if there was anything I should be aware of or if I need extra time at the ticket counter?” The American Airline representative, Ty (no last name, security she says), replies; “Nope, it’s the same process in all airports.”

 

Except it’s not. Had a lawful gun owner followed that due diligence they’d be facing felony gun charges in the City of New York. It seems odd that the airline employees don’t know the rules because once a traveler presents a locked-up firearm at an airport ticket counter in New York for check in, as required by TSA, LaGuardia airline personnel call Port Authority NOT TSA, who immediately arrests the unsuspecting traveler.

 

Ryan explains that his boss, District Attorney Richard Brown; “has called upon the airlines to warn travelers of their responsibility to check local gun laws. Many airlines when asked by a passenger about transporting a weapon will only inform them of federal regulations with no mention of the need to check local laws. It is therefore incumbent upon passengers to acquaint themselves with the weapon laws of the jurisdiction that they are visiting and to comply with any and all legal requirements if they choose to travel with a weapon.”

 

Yet, nobody this reporter called mentioned anything about arresting travelers as they try to leave from a New York airport. It’s also worth noting that there is nothing mentioned on the airlines' or TSA’s websites indicating that if travelers pass through New York they need to make alternate plans for checking in a firearm upon departure.

 

Consequences of due diligence

 

For the hundreds of passengers ensnared in New York City’s harsh firearm rules, there is little recourse for an individual. However, several attorneys, including Dick Heller (who was successful in taking on the Washington DC politicos and eventually won a Supreme Court case regarding the right to own a firearm) said at a Washington DC dinner that a class-action lawsuit might be in order to reign in New York’s firearm laws.

 

As far as the New York legal community is concerned, the law is the law, and until somebody challenges the legal standing, the arrests will continue to take place at the airports.

 

Ryan explained the law in a matter-of-fact tone that “when a visitor to our city is arrested, particularly at our airports, for possessing a weapon, there are several factors we consider in fashioning an appropriate disposition -- including, but not limited to, was the weapon legally obtained, does the individual possess a valid permit in their home state, the duration of their stay in our city and, in airport cases, whether the individual voluntarily disclosed the weapon to authorities. In adjudicating such cases, there must be a balance between our obligation to protect our citizens and an individual's error in judgment. Over the years, we have struck that balance well in ensuring that justice is served and maintaining our state's tough, successful gun laws.”

 

Fairness in New York requires the defendant to pay a fine, court fees and let authorities destroy their legally owned firearm. If defendants follow this sage advice, the judge’s gavel will fall, and they will not serve any jail time. For the court’s trouble, the defendants will pay approximately $10-15 thousand in fees/fines.

 

One last fact for New Yorkers to consider with their so-called successful “tough gun laws.” is that while New York City’s Mayor Michael Bloomberg and his District Attorney offices praise their “toughest in the nation” firearm laws, firearm crime statistics portray a different picture.

 

According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the most recent handgun crime statistics indicates New York has witnessed an increase of firearm related crimes despite the state’s tougher laws.

 

Keeping this in mind 2nd Amendment groups, like Calguns, say New York may be infringing on gun rights. “Look if you are staying in New York City, gun owners must comply with the City's gun laws, but if you are simply passing through it would seem NYC is over-stepping the Second Amendment,” Jason Davis an attorney for Calguns said.

 

Davis along with other citizens who have been charged with felonies, suffered the wrath of New York’s tough gun laws, contend the entire process is nothing more than a money-making business for the Port Authority Police, New York courts and area lawyers that represent those ensnared at airport ticket counters.

 

Criminal-defense lawyer Martin D. Kane points out on Lawyers.com; “What New York does is not helping matters. It’s pretty unreasonable, and it’s great fuel.” He goes on to explain that attorneys should not try to ‘defend’ these cases and claims there is a legal process in place.

 

Nevertheless, Kane claims the specific law is clear and there is no room for negotiation (18 USC §926A Interstate Transportation of Firearms, notwithstanding the clear conflict between NYC and TSA regulations regarding the transportation of weapons.

 

Other NYC gun-related cases

 

Two more NYC gun cases settled this week involving a medical student, Meredith Graves of Tennessee and a retired U.S. Marine Ryan Jerome of Indiana.

 

Graves attorney, Daniel Horwitz spoke to media after he successfully reduced the felony gun charge to a misdemeanor. “She’s happy that this ordeal is over, and she’s looking forward to getting on with her life and her career as a doctor,” he told The New York Post.

 

The former Marine, Jerome’s case also settled this week. After his arrest, Jerome decided to fight the Manhattan District Attorney’s office and beat the felony gun charge, but changed his mind midway through the battle and pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor weapons-possession charge in an effort to avoid a three and a half year jail sentence, according to a New York Times story.

 

While New York City continues to enforce its over-reaching gun laws, it’s up to gun owners to follow the rules, recognize a problem exists in NYC and use legal channels afforded to them to change the Big Apple’s anti-Second Amendment seizures. When a state impedes on Constitutional rights, it has a chilling effect on law-abiding citizens and the last resort necessary is for Lady Justice (Supreme Court) to return the rights’ to the people, just as the founders intended.

[Little Red Rooster 0]

Thanks for the informative articles.

 

That all seems very unfair, however, I don't think I will ever even flirt with bringing any firearm near the Sate of New York. It's clearly way too shady and the Feds/TSA aren't stepping in to do anything about it.

[Malsua 1,422]

Thanks for the informative articles.

 

That all seems very unfair, however, I don't think I will ever even flirt with bringing any firearm near the Sate of New York. It's clearly way too shady and the Feds/TSA aren't stepping in to do anything about it.

 

Rifles and shotguns in New York State aren't a problem. They are still a problem in NYC though.

[Parker 213]

Nice article Malsua. Thanks for posting.

[Dan 177]

Until the argument of "according to Heller, 2A does not apply outside the home" is put to bed, this crap will continue to happen.

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

Nj to upstate NY (near buffalo) i can't bring a handgun at all? Really? Only rifles or shotguns, damn.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

NY allows hand gun hunting! Even by non-residents (with a hunting license). Friends of mine bring guns to West Point! So what's the big deal?????

 

Just don't go through the five boroughs of the city of NY! Take the Parkway to the Throughway to Buffalo......it's that easy!

[Clintoon Eastwood 2]

NY allows hand gun hunting! Even by non-residents (with a hunting license). Friends of mine bring guns to West Point! So what's the big deal?????

 

Just don't go through the five boroughs of the city of NY! Take the Parkway to the Throughway to Buffalo......it's that easy!

 

Ohh ok thanks, but that only means I can bring only during hunting season! Correct?

[Parker 213]

NY allows hand gun hunting! Even by non-residents (with a hunting license). Friends of mine bring guns to West Point! So what's the big deal?????

 

Just don't go through the five boroughs of the city of NY! Take the Parkway to the Throughway to Buffalo......it's that easy!

 

Dave,

 

Your friends are breaking the law. I hope they don't get caught. Handgun hunting would apply only to properly licensed New York residents in possession of a NYS Pistol Permit denoting that particular firearm. Non-residents cannot hunt with a handgun in New York by mere possession of a hunting license. The state guidelines surrounding handguns and their hunting law clearly states such.

 

From the NY DEC Hunting Regs.

http://www.dec.ny.go...door/28182.html

"Possession of handguns in New York State requires a NYS Pistol Permit. New York does not recognize permits issued by other states." Only a New York resident can acquire a NYS Pistol Permit.

 

I've hunted in NY since I was 19 and it hasn't changed in all these years. I've handgun hunted in PA, ME & VT and those states are very "pistol" friendly when it comes to hunting. There are catches to each state so it's good to read and know the state's laws and hunting regs.

 

N.Y. law:

 

Non-residents

 

It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel if the person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console).

 

A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container.

 

Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition or IHMSA sanctioned match, within 48 hours of the competition, if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container. This provision does not apply in NY cities not wholly contained within a single county or to people with felony convictions.

 

Possession of firearms by a person who is a nonresident of this state is lawful while attending or traveling to or from an organized convention or exhibition approved by the NRA, and in which the nonresident is a registered participant within forty-eight hours of such event, provided that the nonresident has not been previously convicted of a felony and further provided that the firearms are transported unloaded in a locked opaque container together with a copy of the convention or exhibition program, convention or exhibition schedule or convention or exhibition registration card. This provision does not apply in NY cities not wholly contained within a single county.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Parker,

 

Thanks for your post. I remember from decades ago when it was possible to hunt upstate with a 50-cent stamp on yer out-of-state license. This was during the single-shot pistol craze when T/C came-out with 14" bull barreled hand guns with rifle calibers. Although I could be confusing NY with another State......Guess those times have changed!

[Parker 213]

Dave,

 

New York is so absurd, a resident can buy a black powder pistol W/O a pistol permit. (What's so absurd about that?) However, to purchase black powder, cap, ball or bullet, you may be asked to show your pistol permit at the local Gander Mountain. It gets more absurd. The state allows hunting with black powder pistols. But to do so, you need to have a NYS pistol permit in your possession for the black powder pistol you are hunting with along with your hunting license.

 

According to the state of New York; "If the gun is a black powder muzzle loading type it is not subject to the law unless you also have the supplies to shoot it."

 

 

Kevin

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Kevin,

 

Friends of mine from NY State that shoot BP rifles are afraid to own and shoot a cap and ball revolver due to this law. They can shoot rifles without a permit!

[RecessedFilter 222]

Does anyone have the document or can link me to the law that states it is legal for a NJ resident to bring guns over state lines into PA?