Saiga .223 Conversion questions

[M1152 713]

This is a continuation from another post but but I don't want to hijack his post. OK got an ETA for next Wednesday for delivery to FFL so hopefully could have it by next weekend. I have a few questions now and likely more later.

 

 

1) I think I already know the answer to this one but let me ask anyway. I’d like to have the Tapco T6 but since folders are illegal in NJ would the T6 collapsible be classified as a folding stock? If that one is banned in NJ I’d like to replicate the 7.62x39 in this post, that is likely to be my desired end result

 

2) any suggestions for decent 10 or 15 round mags for the Saiga .223? My 223 is shipping with with a single 5 round mag. Having a hard time finding factory 10 round mags, my searches only so far only come up with after-market only. Looks like some adapting here but all I want is a 10 or 15 that will work right out of the box, any suggestions?

 

3) Lastly, once it’s converted do we need to do any touch up paint or does the pistol grip cover all the modifications?

 

Thanks in advance

[vladtepes 1,060]

This is a continuation from another post but but I don't want to hijack his post. OK got an ETA for next Wednesday for delivery to FFL so hopefully could have it by next weekend. I have a few questions now and likely more later.

 

 

1) I think I already know the answer to this one but let me ask anyway. I’d like to have the Tapco T6 but since folders are illegal in NJ would the T6 collapsible be classified as a folding stock? If that one is banned in NJ I’d like to replicate the 7.62x39 in this post, that is likely to be my desired end result

 

2) any suggestions for decent 10 or 15 round mags for the Saiga .223? My 223 is shipping with with a single 5 round mag. Having a hard time finding factory 10 round mags, my searches only so far only come up with after-market only. Looks like some adapting here but all I want is a 10 or 15 that will work right out of the box, any suggestions?

 

3) Lastly, once it’s converted do we need to do any touch up paint or does the pistol grip cover all the modifications?

 

Thanks in advance

 

1) the tapco unit is garbage.. and not worth looking at it..

to replicate my stock setup.. you will need the following..

 

carolina shooter supply internal block..

ACE pig nose adapter

AR buffer tube

Magpul MOE (I used a CTR but that is a friction lock version of the MOE which you will NOT need since you can not have a folding OR telescoping stock)

 

alternately you could use the following..

 

carolina shooter supply offers an AR buffer tube with a connection on the end for an AR stock AND the magpul MOE

 

the reason I did what I did is because I feel it comes off of the receiver at the best angle.. and thus worth the investment.. it creates a nice clean line.. it is also a nice solid stock as opposed to that Tapco junk.. I use a lot of Tapco products.. the G2 is one of my favorite AK triggers.. but that stock.. is just complete junk..

 

2) SUREFIRE all day long.. they work fine.. and are durable.. they are all I ran while in NJ..

 

3) I use flat black camo by krylon.. it does NOT match all that well.. but it is super durable if you let it cure.. it is on the very bottom of the gun so you really wont see it..

[vladtepes 1,060]

you will also need to pin the stock so it can NOT move.. in NJ a folding OR telescoping stock is considered a prohibited feature when playing the evil parts game..

[M1152 713]

you will also need to pin the stock so it can NOT move.. in NJ a folding OR telescoping stock is considered a prohibited feature when playing the evil parts game..

Thanks Vladteps for the suggestion on the mags and paint.SUREFIRE mags it is then. For me, it would be pointless to install a telescope stock just to pin it. I'm going to mirror your 7.62x39 build since that was my first choice. The telescope was an afterthought and I wanted to know for sure if it was NJ legal. After looking around to see what's out there your builds are very nicely done and look to meet NJ regs as I understand them. Off to the parts list, I'll keep you posted on progress and problems. Thanks again!

[vladtepes 1,060]

no problem.. if you want a high quality solid fixed stock.. the ACE stock is really nice..

 

[M1152 713]

no problem.. if you want a high quality solid fixed stock.. the ACE stock is really nice..

I think I going to backpedal a little and just do a “out of box kit” this way I could just do it by the numbers. it won’t mirror yours but I try to obtain that style best I could via a kit. Then once I get through and if I don’t have any major issue and I like the results I’ll buy my own parts to do the 308. This really has to go well before I hack up my 308. I looked at the video you posted, I have no problem with the metal my concern is the trigger assembly because I just can’t see all the details in the video but I’m going to go for it

[vladtepes 1,060]

once gun is apart it will make sense.. if it does not let me know and I will walk you through it..

 

this has a lot of detail.. but some of the info is outdated..

 

you will get plastic snap in hole covers so you do not need those ugly post bindings

you will order AK axis pin retainer and not use stupid spring..

 

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/

[M1152 713]

I appreciate the Help, the link and tip on RETAINING PLATE. Knowing me I will have the laptop there going over and over and over all the YouTube videos, LOL. I don’t have a Dremel but I have a 3/8 drill so tomorrow I’ll go over to HomeDepot and see if they have something to grind with that fits in my 3/8 drill. I have a real grinder but that would do me any good for the middle rivet. Can't you just hack off the trigger guard anyway since a new trigger guard is supplied in the kit(s)? Also need to pick up some vice pads, hopefully HD has them too or I'll have to make something. I’m really looking forward doing this. I think once I get past the trigger group I'll be OK. who knows, if it goes really well *maybe* the 308 will be next? I'm thinking Dark Earth, sound good? Again I appreciate your helpful tips & advise.

[vladtepes 1,060]

dark earth would be ideal if you live in the desert..

 

you should be able to drill enough of the rivets out that you can pry the trigger guard and plate off with.. a dremel is ideal.. but you can get it done with just a drill.. if you get vice pads and stuff you are way ahead of me.. I normally just set the gun down on the table.. LOL

[M1152 713]

You could probably do them with a blindfold and one hand tied behind your back. This is the maiden voyage for me, guess I'm just being over cautious considering the vice padding. I’ll give it a try without the vice first and see how it goes and if I need to go that route I'll buy them later on...

[vjf915 456]

The entire conversion is relatively easy. Take your time, but don't psyche yourself out like you currently are. I didn't use a vice, or a block of wood for the receiver. I just set it down on the table like Vlad did. Yes, you can hack up the stock trigger guard if your kit comes with a new one....just remember you need the bottom of the receiver to be BARE.....regardless of how you remove the trigger guard.

[bbk 188]

The Surefire magazines are good to go. Finally ran rounds through my 223 converted saiga, using the Surefire mags, and had no issues. Smooth rifle all around.

[RedBowTies88 41]

Is mine the only one with a issue with surefire? My surfire mag barely wants to click into place. At first it was impossible so i ground it a little and now it works but you still need to use 2 hands to get it to click in.

 

 

also the last shot hold open never works. not that its a big deal but still.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Is mine the only one with a issue with surefire? My surfire mag barely wants to click into place. At first it was impossible so i ground it a little and now it works but you still need to use 2 hands to get it to click in.

 

 

also the last shot hold open never works. not that its a big deal but still.

 

last round bolt hold open is an ANNOYING feature..

 

it sounds like you have Tapco mags.. is this a 7.62 gun? where did you purchase these magazines?

 

my surefire mags all locked in with 0 issue.. and they all had that annoying bolt hold open till I removed it..

[RedBowTies88 41]

no its a surefire/sgm tatical. got it from a gun show but no some nobody with a table it was a pretty big outfit. not that that means anything.

[vladtepes 1,060]

not sure.. how are you sure it is Surefire?

 

when you look at the follower.. does it look like it has a bump on the follower? there is a steel rod on the follower that acts as a last round bolt hold open..

 

I have had numerous Surefire mags.. the all had last round bolt hold opens.. and they all fit without any modifying..

is this a 7.62x39 gun? in thinking there is no way they could be AK mags or they would not work right since you do not have a bullet guide..

[RedBowTies88 41]

its a .223 it reads SureFire Gun Mags LLC on the side. and yes it has the bolt hold open it just never works on the last shot. if you manually charge it with a empty mag it will hold it. unless you let it slam shut.

 

Guess i just got the 1 in 1000 crappy one.

 

Not a biggie though, I plan on the ar mag adaptor in the near future

[vjf915 456]

Don't be gentle with it. You're not making sweet love with the rifle, bang that sh*t into place.

[vladtepes 1,060]

its a .223 it reads SureFire Gun Mags LLC on the side. and yes it has the bolt hold open it just never works on the last shot. if you manually charge it with a empty mag it will hold it. unless you let it slam shut.

 

Guess i just got the 1 in 1000 crappy one.

 

Not a biggie though, I plan on the ar mag adaptor in the near future

 

be careful with dealing with Magnolia State Armory... (they make one of the AR mag adapters out there) the customer service.. shipping.. follow through.. is VERY spotty at best..

which is unfortunate because they make exceptional products..

[M1152 713]

Don't be gentle with it. You're not making sweet love with the rifle, bang that sh*t into place.

That’s the problem you shouldn't have to apply allot of force to get it in place, that’s the rule for anything. Yes I “fitted” the notch for the mag release but the tightness seems to be coming from the side entry points. For my 308 it comes down this, Factory Russian mags are perfect tolerances and US Mags not so good on my 308. That said I ordered ONE SureFire for my 223 so I'll see how that goes once it arrives. If it’s tight like the 308 may try the bullet guide route later on with galil pinned mags.Right now just want to pull off the basic conversion

 

 

So has anyone ever heard of a Vodka gun? Is this something we have to look for on the rifles?

[RedBowTies88 41]

be careful with dealing with Magnolia State Armory... (they make one of the AR mag adapters out there) the customer service.. shipping.. follow through.. is VERY spotty at best..

which is unfortunate because they make exceptional products..

 

Good to know, I'll try to find a stocking dealer and order from them

[vjf915 456]

I was partially joking about slamming the mag in. No, it shouldn't take much force at all. But you don't need to be gentle either

[M1152 713]

I was partially joking about slamming the mag in. No, it shouldn't take much force at all. But you don't need to be gentle either

I understand, sure you want it firm but you shouldn't have to fight with it on each use either. I hope my new 223 has a better fit with those mags than the 308. I recently picked up a few factory mags for the 308 so at $40 a pop I don't think I'll be converting the 308 anytime soon. I may just keep that one stock

 

 

EDIT:

Received the rifle yesterday and some parts came in today including the aftermarket mag. I popped the mag in & out with NO problems whatsoever. Unlike the 308 no fitting required so that was a pleasant surprise. At the moment I’m missing the stock and hard guard because they are coming from different vendors but at least I believe I have all the internals. I’m going to try and start on it tomorrow evening, I hope you guys hang with me in case I get jammed up. Thanks Vladteps & guys for ALL the help to date and any future request for assistance as well.

 

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

Is no problem!

[M1152 713]

Is no problem!

Dumb question but here goes... is there any trick to replacing the gas piston? As you know it is treaded so do I just put it in a vice and simply back-it-out? youtube is flooded with saiga vids but could find anything for the piston. I assume you just unscrew it but want to make sure.

Tonight I removed the bolt carrier assembly, stock and hand guard just to take a look, tomorrow will grind out rivets and go from there.....

 

TIA

[vladtepes 1,060]

Do not replace piston... No point..

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

You have to drill out the pin. Then you will probably have to stick the piston in a vice to crank it out. Get a new pin, thread the new one in and pin it. Tada!

 

Are you doing it for 922?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Pretty sure he ordered us FCg and us furniture...

[M1152 713]

You have to drill out the pin. Then you will probably have to stick the piston in a vice to crank it out. Get a new pin, thread the new one in and pin it. Tada!

 

Are you doing it for 922?

as per Vladtepes and another online friend I’m going to hold off in the piston. I'm alreadly in compliance, the confusion is on my part. I was just advised via email that I only need the piston if I do the bullet guide and Russian mag. As Vladtepes stated earlier it is a number game and I was going for the extra part but it is too much of a deal at this time. why make a project out if it? It was also strongly suggested to break the gun in first before making that mod, and if I plan to change the piston get a 2nd carrier to do the mod. so the piston is job is on backburner, sorry about that…

[vladtepes 1,060]

If you have us furniture and us fire control group I doubt u would need piston