Recreational shooting and lead toxicity

[lunker 274]

This is being created as a public safety message for those of us that enjoy shooting. I have posted snippets of it before in various threads, but figured I would make a more formal post with the idea that a larger audience might see it.

Nearly two years ago I was getting a routine physical at my Doctor's office. I offhandedly mentioned to him that I shoot and reload recreationally and am exposed to lead often, both by handling cast lead in reloading and breathing in the fumes at indoor ranges. He suggested that I get a test for lead in my body. One was a blood test. This is more of a point in time measurement that sees if you have been exposed to lead recently. Unfortunately, low lead levels in the blood is not necessarily a good test of lead levels in the body. One of the reasons lead is so bad for us is that it easily attaches to cells in the body. And it stays there. The results came back and I was very high. I am thankful for this test then because if I took a break from shooting, the lead levels in my blood would gradually decrease and would go down to normal, or close to it and I would never have known to check any further for lead.

Since my levels were high, I did what is called a urine challenge. It basically involves taking a a few pills of a chemical called EDTA. This chemical is used in chelation and it extracts heavy metals from the body and allows them to be excreted in urine. The urine can then be tested for levels of heavy metals. The sample was sent to labs and came back off the charts. The recommended level of lead in the body is < 10 micrograms per gram of sample. Mine was 700. The doctor had never seen a number so high. My levels were high for other heavy metals too, like antimony (an ingredient in gunpowder) and aluminum.

Since this past December, I have been undergoing regular chelation treatments (i.e. my own personal lead remediation), which involves receiving a 1/2 hour IV drip of an EDTA and vitamin B12 cocktail. I have gotten the number from 700 to 400, and now down to 60. I will be continuing until I can get that number down to 10 or less and perhaps periodically afterwards too. Personally, I don't feel like I have ever felt the effects of heavy metal toxicity. Does that mean there were none, I assume not. But heavy metals do effect children and pregnant women in the form of learning disabilities and birth defects.

I have a lot of friends on the site who have been asking me to come shoot with them. I have really been trying to avoid going shooting until this is finally under control. The big debate is the source of the lead posioning. My doctor believes that growing up in the industrial state of New Jersey already hamstrings us and raises our numbers. I have done some reading on absorption of lead, and it is not through the skin. So I would only attribute some of it to my loading lead bullets (although I have switched to complete metal jacketed for loading). My belief is that the majority came from shooting in poorly ventilated indor ranges and breathing in vaoporized lead dust. Even if my bullets are fully surrounded with copper, the guy's next to mine aren't. And I have no doubt that I am breathing leadclouds from everyone else around me. I am not really interested in pinpointing the exact cause. I am sure that it is some combination of all of the above. I also don't know if I am more susceptible to this lead posioning for some reason than the general public, but I do know that I will make it a rare occasion to shoot indoors now.

Anyway, hopefully this story will make you take an extra second to ask your doctor for a lead test the next time you go for your checkup.

 

If anyone wants to ask a question privately, or even find the name of my physician (since most doctors do not have regular on-site chelation treatments), please feel free to PM me.

[Regulator72 80]

Thanks for the info Chris. I was suprised to learn of your issues the other night when we spoke. I will be asking my Doc next time I go, just to be sure.. Thanks for the write up and sharing your story.

[Urban Grunt 44]

Good on you for finding out and taking action to control it and spreading the word.

 

I am in the same kind of situation but with piscicides/Insecticide (Lindane) 15 years after been exposed my life has been changed forever.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

Very interesting, thanks for the info.

 

I am a member of Dix now and definitely prefer shooting outdoors, but am considering joining an indoor range as well (or a place like CJ that has both). I can definitely say that I really dislike indoor ranges that have poor ventilation, you can tell right away if they do. Also (this may be TMI) but i have noticed that when i blow my nose after shooting indoors there is usually black stuff in there

Just goes to show what you are breathing in...

 

I do ALWAYS wash up and change my clothes right away when I get home from the range so my daughter has less of a chance of coming into contact with the chemicals/lead.

[Ronald Silver 2]

thanks for the info.

question. how long have you been shooting indoors?

[Vlad G 345]

I've included a lead level test in my yearly blood tests. I've asked the doc to do it, explained why, and have been keeping an eye on it. I too am skeptical of indoor ranges, on the other hand I don't spend that much time in them anyway, so I figure the 10 times a year or less I use them is not really a problem, as I used to be there a lot more in the past and didn't affect me. I'll also venture a guess that the quality of the indoor's range air system is quite important to the math.

 

Lastly, whenever I hear about someone with high lead levels I also hear about them reloading lead bullets. Presumably if it was just shooting them, people around them would be affected as much, but my anecdotal sample size says the reloaders themselves are affected far more. I don't load uncovered lead and I use nitrile gloves whenever I reload, just to be safe.

 

Oh ... and I tend to NOT clean my guns, so I don't spend a lot of time with my hands in solvents and lead residue.

[Ronald Silver 2]

Should we take any precautions cleaning lead off pistols? gloves? done outside with fresh air? Is inhaling the lead residue ok since it's not vaporized at home?

[Vlad G 345]

Should we take any precautions cleaning lead off pistols? gloves? done outside with fresh air? Is inhaling the lead residue ok since it's not vaporized at home?

 

Dunno but I figure there is a lot of concentrated residue of every damn thing bad in them, and then we use harsh chemicals. So I'd say were disposable gloves, and do it with the windows open. Or, like me, clean them only when they make you go "eww" when you see them.

[lunker 274]

Unfortunately, I don't have all or even many of the answers here. I don't think handling fully copper jacketed bullets when loading at home would cause a problem since nothing is airborne. The nitrile gloves Vlad uses are a pretty good idea though. I also think that the cleaning solvents that become saturated with lead being removed from your guns would be something to be minimized through the use of gloves. My dillon has a primer catcher, and those spent primers are a source of airborne lead when you empty them. The same is probably true of the vibratory brass cleaners. I have switched to liquid cleaning with stainless steel media. Setting it up the vibratory cleaner outdoors is a good option too.

I was shooting once a week at Shore Shot. I will still go once in a while because I meet people there and because I like the fiolks who work there and the owners too. The rest of the time I will be content to sweat/freeze outdoors, depending on the season.

[Vlad G 345]

Most copper jacketed ammo still has an exposed lead base so you are going to get something that way. For the vibrator cleaners, I use a dillon one with the fully enclosed top and I use rice as media which in my experience been the LEAST dusty option, the fibers in the rice act like a damn magnet and hold everything in.

 

Basically there is probably no one single factor to high lead levels, it is probably a lot of small things .. well besides eating old wall paint of course.

[mipafox 438]

My doctor believes that growing up in the industrial state of New Jersey already hamstrings us and raises our numbers. I have done some reading on absorption of lead, and it is not through the skin.

 

He is right. I find lead in NJ most places I look in soil and water in any place that is/was urban, and also some places that weren't known to be. Such as former orchards in rural areas. And, such as for no discernable reason.

 

I also find people with elevated levels in their tests when they do not shoot and do not live in urban areas.

 

You say you cannot be exposed through absorption, and although that is not entirely true, it is fair from a big picture standpoint. Lead does not go away. You walk down a dusty road or drive behind a truck and you both breath and injest it. If you ever get home and blow your nose and see a little dirt then you've been exposed.

 

I agree with both you and your doctor. Environmental exposure to lead is very common in NJ, and I have no doubt that your reloading activities (and possibly shooting as well) have also exposed you, quite possibly much more.

[Twospot 38]

WoW Chris! I am glad you are getting it all squared away. I just started shooting so I appreciate the PSA for me to keep an eye on myself. I wish you the best!

[Ronald Silver 2]

Is lead a concern for those who have wells? Can shooting on your own property lead to lead appearing in your water?

[mipafox 438]

Is lead a concern for those who have wells? Can shooting on your own property lead to lead appearing in your water?

 

Doing anything on your property can lead to that anything appearing in your well.

 

Lead has a high soil-sorption coefficient. It often doesn't get that deep from surface contamination, although sometimes it does. It is very hard to generalize. It might go deeper in beach sand or bedrock, it might stay more shallow in residential organic soils or silts/clays.

 

For me, I wouldn't worry about it if I had a deep well. I probably wouldn't worry about it if I had a water table well unless there was proximity or I thought water from the berm was probably going towards the well. But, there is just no way to know for sure.

 

If I was operating a full-time range and had a shallow well, I might test. A test costs $10 digestion fee plus +$10 for a single PPMetal most times. I'd probably test once or twice a year.

 

Remember when I said lead has a high soil-sorption coefficient? That also means that most lead found in water it is adsorbed to turbidity particles. If your water is absolutely crystal clear, it would likely be fairly low in lead unless the lead was from a chemical source. If it's turbid, it could certainly be very high if there is a pathway to your well.

 

By the way, the MCL (drinking water level) is actually higher than the NJ Ground Water Quality Standard. Groundwater in NJ is supposed to be cleaner than the water you drink. Because water is likely to pick up a little lead from solder etc. in your home.

[Sandy 44]

I am so careful when I come home from the range for this reason. I have kids , one of them an 8 month old. I wash my hands thoroughly , twice , once when I get in and again after I change my clothes. Some ranges have that deleader for your hands. Is there anywhere to buy that ? And we clean our guns in the basement , and wash thoroughly afterwards.

 

It is something that has been on my mind too , getting tested. Not because of my new hobby , but because I grew up riding dirtbikes from age 7 until about age 20 in the swamps behind Kearny. We use to go crabbing in the water , eat the crabs , and we use to SWIM in this perfectly clear pool of water that had barrels sunk in it. We use to have challenges to see who could swim underwater and touch all of the barrels before coming up. I shudder when I think about it. Water in the wetlands is not suppose to be that clear. God knows what it was , some kind of chemical pit or something. It was way deep in the swamps.

 

When you talk about that urine intolerance test , most children have unacceptable levels of antimony and other chemicals from plastic in their urine. It is due to so many foods being packaged in "bad " plastics. They have banned BPA now from most plastics that come into contact with food and drink..but still. The good plastic numbers are 1 , 2 , 4 and 5 . The bad ones are 3, 6 , and 7. It is the little number in the recycling triangle on plastic containers.

 

We had our water tested and home tested when we bought the house. The inspector said linoleum was a huge source of lead in the home , and that babies crawling on it are the most susceptible. As the floor gets mopped lead accumulates in the corners and around the border. Babies touch everything and out that in their mouths.

 

My kids are due to get retested for lead. Everything was fine the first time. Lead is very damaging to children so it pays to be careful:/

 

Thanks for sharing this.

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Very Familiar with EDTA, we used it in the lab to dissolve iron into water. If anyone is wondering it is safe to use, you just have to be careful, because it will dissolve most heavy metals, some of which your body needs, like iron. Take vitamins and make sure your getting more iron and other nutrients it may be flushing out.

[mipafox 438]

I am so careful when I come home from the range for this reason. I have kids , one of them an 8 month old. I wash my hands thoroughly , twice , once when I get in and again after I change my clothes. Some ranges have that deleader for your hands. Is there anywhere to buy that ? And we clean our guns in the basement , and wash thoroughly afterwards.

 

The most resistant of all mammals to chemical exposure is the adult male human. Everything is downhill from there. Children and pets are small and smaller doses are more important. Pets are more susceptible because they are lower in the order (not sure how natural selection did that). Both spend time on the floor. That's where the stuff is. On the floor.

 

I don't counsel people that frequent ranges. Don't know enough about it. But I do counsel people that frequent industrial sites. Not OSHA 1910.120 operations, and not working onsite for 40 hours a week for 20 years, just wandering around once a week or so.

 

I tell them that if they have pets or children they should leave their boots outside and go to the laundry and strip and throw clothes in the washer when they get home. Is that overreacting for a trip to the range? I don't know. I would say, clothes maybe, boots, no. We are talking about a dirty, filthy, full-time range here. Not where you shoot in your backyard.

 

This is not professional advice. But with young children in my home, I would take my boots off coming home from a full-time range at the door or at the trunk of the car. I might not necessarily march straight to the laundry room but I would change clothes and put mine in the hamper.

 

I would not test my children for lead. People have done far worse for many generations and everybody was just fine. Routine trips to the range does not make you a bad parent that needs a medical monitoring program for your kids.

[Sandy 44]

Oh , they get required routine testing for lead in NJ anyway. Not my idea per say.They are due means they need it on their universal healthcare form for the next school year. NJ legislates the most tests and vaccines for kids . Shocker ?

 

We don't wear shoes in the house , period.

[mipafox 438]

Oh , they get required routine testing for lead in NJ anyway. Not my idea per say.They are due means they need it on their universal healthcare form for the next school year.

 

That is insane. Take your kids out of NJ tonight and don't ever go back. Based on this, I'll never even take children into NJ for a day trip. That is some scary shit.

[Dan 177]

Good post OP. Very good timing as I was at the CJ indoor range today, and remember thinking to myself about lead ingestion through smoke and particulates. I shot some FMJ's that have an open lead base, which I'm never buying again, and some fully clad copper plated bullets which I felt better about. The ventilation system is good, but you can't help but get that metallic-y flavor in your mouth after awhile. Not good. Outdoors or bust for me for now on, especially after reading your story here.

[Ronald Silver 2]

Outdoors or bust for me for now on, especially after reading your story here.

 

Outdoors is nice. Fresh air. No noise bouncing off walls & ceilings. Sunshine... with the occasional bad weather.

[TheLugNutZ 21]

It is something that has been on my mind too , getting tested. Not because of my new hobby , but because I grew up riding dirtbikes from age 7 until about age 20 in the swamps behind Kearny. We use to go crabbing in the water , eat the crabs , and we use to SWIM in this perfectly clear pool of water that had barrels sunk in it. We use to have challenges to see who could swim underwater and touch all of the barrels before coming up. I shudder when I think about it. Water in the wetlands is not suppose to be that clear. God knows what it was , some kind of chemical pit or something. It was way deep in the swamps.

 

Thats scary. Check the superfund list!

[mipafox 438]

 

 

Thats scary. Check the superfund list!

 

The NPL? LOL! All you are worried about is CERCLA sites? I think there are only a hundred or so on it in NJ and a few thousand pending nationwide.

 

I would check the NJ Known Contaminated Sites List (KCSL). There are 15,000 sites on that list in New Jersey:

 

http://www.nj.gov/dep/srp/kcsnj/

 

Or, better yet, use NJDEP IMAP to plot the KCSL, Classification Exception Areas (CEAs, long-term contaminated groundwater), Well Restriction Areas (WRAs), in your own neighborhood on a pretty map that shows your house!

 

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/gis/depsplash.htm

 

(click to launch i-map dep in the top left corner)

[M4BGRINGO 139]

I've been drag racing for over 20 years with leaded race fuels. I guess between that and my new gun hobby I am screwed............

[tt-33 8]

I think you get more lead exsposure from the primers than from jacketed ammo since it gets atomised

[Regulator72 80]

I use ESCA Tech products to clean my hands as well as my gun, reloading bench. They make wipes and soaps that remove lead and other heavy metals from your hands.

 

https://www.esca-tech.com/ProductList.php?category=1000

 

The top 2 are what I have, wipes and the small soap.

 

Brownells carries this product as does http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1232

 

I think Tony had some in stock a while back..

Edited March 3, 2012 by Regulator72

[Old School 611]

We need to make this lead / mercury / aluminum / antimony / arsenic contamination some kind of sticky.

 

It is a real threat maybe more dangerous than the "bad guys" we all are concerned about.

 

I'm chelated once a week altenating EDTA and DMPS. DMPS is not covered by insurrance. Thankfully I can afford my treatments.

 

Chris PM me there is more you need to do.

 

Guys If you are shooting at these hole in the walls with $hitty ventilation stop now before it's too late.

 

Atleast outdoors you stand a chance.

[Old School 611]

Also watch showering today as you might fall and crack your skull open..or fall down the stairs and break your neck....

 

Not trying to be flippet but life is full of bad stuff.......

 

Nick - If you don't accept this as a real health hazzard you are a knuckle head!

 

Open your eyes. Many of the effects of heavy metal are similar to those of agent orange. Now does that hit home?

[Old School 611]

....oh it does and I do...BUT.....you need sensible mitigation.....you cannot melt wheel weights into ingots WITHOUT. Wearing proper respiratory gear and doing it outside ....let alone casting....

 

My point is that there is plenty that can kill you in this life in a second or thirty years....what ru going to do live in a bubble?

 

Nick - You know me and know I live on the edge not in a bubble. Just saying if you suspect you may be contaminated get tested and take action.

And above all avoid ranges that have similarities with a dungeon.

 

As far as Casting that's another issue.

[Sandy 44]

Skiing , Nastar Racing ( not nascar , relax) , extreme martial arts , submission grappling , and now shooting.And I went skydiving twice. Pete has over 1000 jumps. All hobbies with an element of risk that I and my husband partake in and would like to continue for a very long time as well as introduce to our kids and grandkids. You have to take care of the body to live outside the bubble. Otherwise you will be forced into safe hobbies at a relatively young age. So many people start to crap out in their 60 , get sick from avoidable things ..and regret it. Take care of the body and it will take you farther. Deleading yourself when you get out of the range and expecting good ventilation is pretty reasonable. Chelation if you are toxic with heavy metals might keep the guys with the butterfly nets away a bit longer so you can enjoy your edgey lifestyle