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"Apply to be Denied" lunch Saturday March 28th

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Final Meeting Details Can Be Found Here:

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/75791-apply-to-be-denied-where-to-meet/?p=959931

 

Note that there are some changes. 

 

 

Original Post ------------------------------------

 

There's been a lot of discussion (again) about organizing a large group to apply for NJ carry permits.  The goal would be to get denied and challenge the denials as a large group in court.  A large enough group of denied applicants would also disprove the state's claim that they aren't denying anyone's rights because they approve 97% of permits. 

 

Anyone interested in discussing this is invited to lunch on Saturday, March 28th.   Please respond here if you're interested and if you would attend.   I have no idea where this will lead or what plan, if any, we come up with.   A discussion on this can be found here.

 

I know not everyone favors the idea and I'm sure that the next 3 posts will explain why we should be discouraged and not try.  But I'm up for this - assuming we get a group that's willing to talk.

 

I want to be clear that I am not looking to lead this.  Somebody needed to pick a date to meet or it would never happen so I stuck my neck out and picked one.  After this post - I'm just a participant.

 

I'm also not looking to start another splinter 2A group.  There's been a lot of that lately.  I do hope that some brilliant ideas develop over lunch.

 

The place isn't determined yet.  NJ has a lot of diners - if we get a large enough group we might be able to reserve a room.   A centrally located range willing to donate a room might work too.  That will be decided later.

 

I want to see where everyone's from so we can find a place that's as central to as many of us as possible.  So, if you're interested in getting together, please RSVP with a post below and be sure to mention what town/county you're in so we can try to accommodate everyone with minimum driving.

 

Thanks.

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I put the link up on NJ Hunter! If we could collaborate and come up with a flyer or handout that clearly explains our goals,

I will volunteer to have a thousand, or more printed in color and they could be left at local gun shops and sporting goods stores, handed out, etc.

 

S.A.F.E. NJ  Save.  Amendment 2.  For.  Everyone.  NJ. (I know, it's corny) Should we try to hook up with NJ2AS on this one, or go it alone! I say "Power in numbers"!

 

Below is the link to the NJ Hunter link to here. I also posted in 1A here!

 

www.newjerseyhunter.com/forums/86-newjerseyhunter-meet-up/183467-protect-our-gun-rights-nj-lunch-meet-up-let-s-do.html

 

 

PLEASE, Let's not let this fizzle out!  TAKE A STAND!  We can't accomplish anything alone, but TOGETHER, we can move mountains!

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Depending on what time my plane lands that day, and how long customs takes. I will do my best to make it. I really would like to attend but I'm at the mercy of the Airlines. They always seem to find a way to screw me over when I have someplace to be.

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I'm in. Just don't make it Easter Sunday.

 

Newton, Sussex County.

 

It would be awfully far for most of you but if we need a room for free we might be able to use the classroom at Cherry Ridge. Otherwise any of the many diners in central NJ would be happy to have 15 or 20 people.

 

I'm not on Facebook, Twitter, etc. 

 

We should come up with some ideas or discussion points before hand. 

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Interested in Atlantic county

 

I'm ex-military and therefore have a target on my back thanks to the JayVee ISIS groups

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Tentatively in depending on now far it is from Gloucester City.  I have a busy day planned and can't commit to driving for 2 hours each way.

 

Definitely in for the application and denial phase though.

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Guys,

 

This will be a huge waste of time, and will probably kill this idea permanently, if we do not have an agenda for the meeting, as well as a legal follow-up plan.

 

IMO we need first to determine the legal machinery we'll be pursuing. Is this idea feasible at all? What course would it take once we're all denied? At what point are we likely to be turned away? How do we document that we've been denied in a way that doesn't require us to apply separately and wait several months for a court to produce our paperwork? 

 

Only an attorney experienced in NJ gun law could provide that information. Without it we are just spinning our wheels. 

 

If 30 people show up and nothing gets done at this meeting, we'll be lucky to have five people on board for the next meeting.

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Newtonian is right. Get everyone who is intersted to contribute "x" amount, pay an attorney for their time and then organize a Q&A get together. If enough people are interested split it up to north and south NJ. If u have 2 meetings I think you would have more people show up. People in North Jersey or South Jersey won't have to travel too far and people in Central Jersey will have 2 choices. Make the Q&A sessions on different dates.

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I agree that there needs to be an agenda or we will just waste time.   I'm not sure we even have the right questions to ask an attorney at this time.  I'm afraid that if we brought in an attorney at this time, he or she would just be blindsided with our random - and unorganized questions as a group all trying to go different directions and throw out different scenarios.    The law is complicated - even for attorneys.  There are lots of times that they need to do research before giving an opinion.

 

I'd like to meet to try to come to some consensus about what we want to accomplish before we get the advice of an attorney.  I know we'll have multiple ideas and different opinions - one of the hazards of getting liberty minded people together.  Too bad we're not all progressives - we'd just do what we were told and we'd like it that way.

 

A significant goal of this meeting should be to get a good list of questions for an attorney written down.  Then we let people know what we're trying to do and see who will throw in $50.  I don't want to discourage anyone from attending this first meeting by expecting a contribution toward an attorney in advance.  Most can afford to chip in for lunch but not everyone can do more right now.

 

There may be those who can't attend or who would prefer to support something financially more than be involved in the planning too.  I'd like to offer the opportunity to support this to a larger group.

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Newtonian has pointed out that we need an agenda or we'll just spin our tires.  

 

I've created another topic about this meeting where we can come up with an agenda here

 

Hopefully the moderators will be kind and let us have 3 discussions running about this meeting at the same time.  I just want to avoid the confusion of combining RSVPs, Where to Meet, and An Agenda discussion all on top of each other.

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I'd be interested, but the number 1 question in my mind is where are we going with this.  We had Drake and SCOTUS didn't grant cert.  By doing this will it position us any differently for eventualy cert with SCOTUS?  We know NJ courts will never grant anything so it will need to be heard by SCOTUS.

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I'd be interested, but the number 1 question in my mind is where are we going with this.  We had Drake and SCOTUS didn't grant cert.  By doing this will it position us any differently for eventualy cert with SCOTUS?  We know NJ courts will never grant anything so it will need to be heard by SCOTUS.

I don't know if we'll get a different result than drake which was:  Federal Circuit Court upheld NJ's laws and it was then sent to SCOTUS and they declined hearing the case.

 

But if we don't send more cases, we won't ever get a different outcome.    And one thing will be different, This time, NJ won't be able to tell the federal court that it issues more than 90% of permits as evidence that it protects people's rights. 

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